Embrace Uncertainty and Outsmart Everyone: Why Doubt is Our Superpower with Carolyn Kraft
Reese Brown (00:30.528)
Carolyn, firstly, thank you so much for being here. I have been so looking forward to our conversation and I'm so excited to be chatting with you.
Carolyn Kraft (00:43.355)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (00:51.27)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (00:56.613)
Yeah, yeah, thank you for having me. I'm really excited as well.
Reese Brown (00:59.552)
Absolutely. My first question, just to hopefully set a positive tone for our conversation, is what is one thing that you're grateful for right now?
Carolyn Kraft (01:09.081)
I love that that is how you start the entire conversation because I actually try to do kind of a gratitude thing every morning where I list three things I'm grateful for. And it can really be anything from the smallest things. It doesn't have to be the kind of specific thing, the typical things that people would assume. And so I guess one thing I'm very grateful for is...
I'm gonna switch something around that actually annoys me and make me grateful. I'm gonna make it, I have gratitude. I'm grateful for all the rain that my city and state has been experiencing because although I may not be able to go outside as much, the plants are gorgeous, it's very green, and it's nice to have that kind of life and growth around us.
Reese Brown (01:35.65)
I love it. Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:51.904)
Yeah, absolutely. I love that shift. Gratitude is really the entryway into changing our mindset about a lot of things. And I similarly am not a huge fan of rain. And it's always hard when you wake up and it's like, it's a gloomy day out. But it's it's what the earth needs. It's also like feeding all of us. So yeah. My second question is a big one.
Carolyn Kraft (01:55.632)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (02:00.835)
yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (02:15.363)
Mm-hmm, exactly.
Reese Brown (02:20.534)
It's what is your story? I know that that's a lot, but whatever you feel called to speak to about your journey and whatever feels relevant in this moment is absolutely perfect and I would love to hear all about it.
Carolyn Kraft (02:34.821)
That is, yeah, that is always a hard question to answer because I think the question of what is your story and then my answer, it's always within the context of the conversation, right? So the story kind of changes depending on who you're talking to, what the context of the conversation is, what you want to share with the audience. And so can I respond with question? Which, here's the thing, you gave me a very broad.
Reese Brown (02:58.178)
Absolutely, please.
Carolyn Kraft (03:02.169)
a broad path to choose from. And so I'm going to ask you to narrow it for me a little bit. Would you like me to discuss more my journey on becoming, you know, a content creator, my path and kind of start with that? Or do you want a story that is more specific to who I am as a person and maybe leads into the YouTube thing or...
Reese Brown (03:07.137)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (03:19.962)
Yeah, more you as a person is for sure what I would love to hear about, but of course, content creation is a part of that. So if we end up there, that's beautiful too.
Carolyn Kraft (03:22.607)
Okay, yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (03:27.089)
Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll start far back because people find this very interesting about me, which is I was born and raised in Honolulu, Hawaii. I lived there for 12 years. was born there. Yeah. Lived there. And then I moved to Seattle, Washington. I lived there for about eight years. And that's where most of my family is on my dad's side, at least most of my family is on the mainland, not in Hawaii.
My parents actually separately moved to Hawaii and met there. Very, very cool story, but that's, that's for another time. And then I went to UCLA for undergrad. So I lived in LA for five years, took a gap year. During that time, that's when I, found my interest in becoming a lawyer or at least going to law school. So I double majored in environmental studies and political science. And with my experience with political science, part of me was like, okay, what am going to do with a political science degree? I should probably, you know, figure out a way to make some
money to thrive. And I think, you know, going to law school might, might help me with that one. But also I became interested in the, law because I started working at a personal injury law firm, initially just to, experience and to make money. But then I found it very interesting. So I worked at a personal injury law firm for four to five years about, and we'll rewind a little bit. I actually had a very interesting introduction to law that
at the time did not make me be like, oh, I want to be a lawyer. But after the fact, when I looked back on it, it did have an impact. And this is a very big part of my story, which is why I want to include it. Actually, I took a gap year before I went to undergrad, before I went to UCLA. And the reason I took a gap year is because as a pedestrian, I was hit by a drunk driver. And the individual was on alcohol, weed, meth, just a bunch of different drugs.
Reese Brown (04:56.91)
Mmm.
Carolyn Kraft (05:16.185)
Very, very, yeah, very deep. And he hit me with his car on a residential road, dead end, Friday, 2 p.m., like, you know, it's just completely random. And I was in the hospital for two weeks. I had multiple brain bleeds. had a speech impediment. had memory issues, massive concussions, fractured skull, everything. I don't remember any of it. Don't remember the accident, don't remember the hospital.
Reese Brown (05:28.365)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (05:40.493)
Wow.
Carolyn Kraft (05:42.055)
Yeah. So I had to go to speech therapy. I had to go to other therapy, um, all of that. And I reapplied to school at that time. Actually, I was originally going to go to university of Miami to be become a Marine biologist. I had a big passion for animals and science as a kid, but I really want to go to UCLA, but I had been wait-listed the year prior. So I reapplied to school, got into UCLA. And so that's a huge shift there. University of Miami in Florida, Marine biologist to then UCLA, California.
And I started with being an environmental studies major and then became political science because I took up political theory class just as a GE, ended up loving it and decided to do political science. Then I got involved in being a pers-
being an assistant and then eventually somewhat of a paralegal at a personal injury law firm. And so I have like kind of a long history in the legal realm, but in a very unique way because I've never had any lawyers in my family, but I was introduced to the law very young. I sat in the courthouse when the individual was sentenced to one year in prison because he hit me with his car. And so that was a very interesting introduction and it's just further kind of culminated throughout my life to be like, okay, I think I want to go to law school and see how
Reese Brown (06:40.449)
Right.
Carolyn Kraft (06:57.193)
that works out. And then I ended up taking a gap year, went to Vanderbilt Law School after that and graduated about two years ago. So, and here I am now, content creator.
Reese Brown (07:05.614)
Yes. No, I love it. it's firstly, thank you for sharing. And I had no idea about this injury accident. And I can imagine how jarring that would be. even as you hear people take gap years all the time, right? And it's thrown around as a very normal thing to do. But it actually isn't all that common. And
I had an interesting beginning to my college experience and I ended up transferring into a university and even taking a bit of a different journey to get there. It was difficult to explain. And I can only imagine with this like added layer to it of like why it's all happening. The difficulty of it has to become a part of your story and it has to become a part of what you talk about.
Carolyn Kraft (07:50.714)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (08:02.486)
write to people for them to get to know you. I know you mentioned you were exposed to the law very young and you originally didn't think of that as really impacting your interest there, but what about that do you think does impact your interest in law now? Are you really motivated by this kind of ethics behind justice?
Carolyn Kraft (08:02.535)
Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Kraft (08:26.438)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (08:26.616)
peace or is there this other more academic thing and it's like this was just something that introduced me to this world.
Carolyn Kraft (08:34.523)
You know, it's kind of hard to answer that because I sometimes think that when you ask individuals these questions, they have a very curated answer. And I will say a lot of it is kind of random. Like I would love to sit here and answer your questions, say, you know what, like I got hit by the car and then this thing happened and I was like, I want to be a lawyer and fight for justice and, you know, represent victims of, you know, violence or whatever, you know?
Reese Brown (08:42.84)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (08:51.488)
You
Carolyn Kraft (08:59.867)
But that's not what happened. It's more something that I look back on and I'm like, it makes sense now how that happened. And it's just a very interesting path that things just line up like that. And I've kind of found that's how the world works. At least my world works is that I will look back and be like, wow, that's some crazy like number of coincidences that have got me to the point that I'm at. And that's a crazy path I took. It all makes sense now, Hindsets 2020. But when you're in it,
Reese Brown (09:01.527)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (09:11.309)
Right.
Carolyn Kraft (09:27.607)
It's not as clear. so I will say the accident introduced me to the law because again, no lawyers in my family, my dad, you my family, we do own a small business. And so I kind of understood the law from that perspective as a small business owner, you need to operate within the bounds of law. Obviously you're very involved in that. So I had that idea, but
I in the time when I was hit by a car, it was so traumatic. I was not really thinking about the legal side of it. I was just trying to recover. And, know, I was dealing with a lot of personal issues too. It's really hard to see all your friends go to college and you see their Snapchats and they're all having fun and you're at home with a speech impediment and a brain bleed and you're like, cool. Like I literally can't even drive yet. You know, I can't work out. I can't do anything because I have all these like restrictions on me. And so
Reese Brown (09:57.784)
Right?
Reese Brown (10:14.668)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (10:18.808)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (10:20.161)
That was kind of the main thing that was going on at the time. But then as I moved through my undergrad and I got introduced more to political theory, political science, and I started working with lawyers, I started like regaining an interest and looking back at that experience and being like, wow, that was actually a very interesting experience. And the sentencing aspect of it and understanding how the judicial system works. And I actually kept track of the individual who hit me with his car. And I
through my undergrad, was checking in on him because I wanted to see what happened to him. And my hope was that he would write his life and become a better person from this experience, which unfortunately did not happen at all, actually got way, way worse. so, you know, it kind of like influenced me after the fact. And then if that makes sense, and then it just became part of my story as I continued to move towards being a lawyer. And then from my interest in being a lawyer also is I'm very in this part of the
Reese Brown (10:54.755)
Right.
Reese Brown (11:05.208)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (11:16.91)
I am a practicing attorney, I work with startups, business law.
I've done some entertainment law, also done Will's Trust in the States, but my content is more focused on the academic side of it. And I find that a lot more interesting, to be honest. I really like political theory. I like theories. I like philosophy. I like ethics. Thinking about these different things is very interesting to me. And I like teaching people about it, educating, and I like learning alongside them because that's, I am learning alongside my audience, right? And so that's actually what attracts me a little bit.
more to kind of the legal profession rather than actually being a lawyer, although I do like parts of it as well.
Reese Brown (11:57.582)
Sure, absolutely. No, think that that's such a good point that, you know, there is this one, like any good educator is also a lifelong learner and is learning from their students. there's the Buddhist, you know, the teacher is the student and the student is the master and you learn from each other. And that is one of the really amazing things about content creation is that you can
kind of hack the system in a way to like get paid to be curious and like spend time researching what you're interested in. I am also really curious in your work online, you do a lot that is really grounded in philosophy. And of course your like professional background is law and there is a lot of philosophy that goes into law and understanding the law. But did you ever formally study
philosophy itself and what sparked that interest in this more kind of open-ended theoretical avenue that isn't quite as, well, I suppose it is very grounded because even the philosophy you talk about has very real world application, but what really sparked that interest in this kind of other dimension of these topics?
Carolyn Kraft (13:21.543)
Mm-hmm. So when I was an undergrad, took a class in philosophy. was just a philosophy one-on-one class. And the class that made me major in political science was political theory. And so I was introduced to philosophy in undergrad and even before undergrad in high school and all that. was just, I took an ethics class in high school as well. That was very interesting. And just as a child, I was very inquisitive. I had so many questions and I wrote religious in,
Christianity more or less. And so that also introduces you to theory and philosophy to a degree as well, right? It's very spiritual and introduces you into the idea of like, what's right, what's wrong? Why is it right? Why is it wrong? And so...
I did not minor in philosophy. haven't had any official kind of title to say that I've studied it per se, but it's always been in my life. And then of course, going to law school, philosophy, political theory, all of that is deeply intertwined with that as well. And so I will say a lot of it is just a very deep personal interest in it. And I think that I've also had a lot of political opinions. I've paid attention to politics a lot.
throughout my entire life and I realized and this is my opinion but I realized that a lot of our biggest issues in life or in the political realm especially nowadays is that people are not asking the question why do I believe what I believe?
Instead, they largely just believe what they believe because the political party they support said it, or the celebrities said it, or their peers pressured them to believe it, or they were, you know, born and raised in an environment that said this is how you think and that's just, it's just kind of a group think thing and they grew up that way.
Carolyn Kraft (15:06.171)
But we really need to start asking, why do I believe what I believe? And why do you believe what you believe? Because that is how we actually figure out how to bridge that gap between our differences. And so I kind of noticed that just by observation and all of that. And I thought, OK.
How can I make a difference and help people understand kind of the background as to why people might believe certain things and instead of villainizing the opposition or the person that you disagree with, we instead can have an actual conversation and I know where your belief system lies. And so that's my answer to that.
Reese Brown (15:40.746)
Yeah, no, think that's so important, especially with, I mean, you hear it now, everything is politics, everything is political and to a very real sense that's so true. And I completely agree with what you're saying that we all adopt our beliefs to a certain extent, but at some point we have to become responsible for our own beliefs, our own values, our own ethics. And I think that is something that
A lot of people who have deconstructed religion have really had to go in and deep dive and think about these things from a very like analytical, but also felt perspective. And I think that's also why we see a lot of people who, you know, their identities fit outside of the status quo or the norm have very deep engagement with these things too is because they're kind of forced to think about things in a different way.
and so I love that that's your goal to help people, you know, if you end up back where you started, that's fine, but just start asking those questions to why do I believe what I believe and why does someone else believe what they believe? within this questioning, one thing that I wanted to ask you about, because I think this is a really big conversation online that we must make our opinions known, right? We must say.
Carolyn Kraft (16:46.438)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (17:08.14)
This is what I believe and if you have any audience at all, you need to have a you know, ethical code, thing that you're kind of preaching or selling and your content stays very neutral from your perspective, but offers this very deep level of critique and analysis. What motivates you to want to present these things from that
perspective because I think there is a lot of pressure to almost like come out with your political beliefs, right? And we know, and there's good that can come from that, right? But there's also people that are going to hear that and immediately shut down and not listen to what you have to say too. So it's kind of the cost benefit analysis of that. But why is that important to you and a lot of your content to
Carolyn Kraft (17:45.585)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (18:05.634)
present both sides, you know, as equally as possible. Even you have a recent video where you are literally debating with yourself on both sides of the topic. And it's a beautiful format to be able to have this conversation. But yeah, tell me more.
Carolyn Kraft (18:15.761)
Yeah,
Carolyn Kraft (18:23.909)
Yeah, so one of the big things I say, and you can see this on my YouTube channel, it's like the banner is, know, I'm giving you the freedom to think, right? That is my goal here. And we have so many people that give their opinions already. Why would I give my opinion? It's just going to be lumped in with everyone else's opinion. When you go online, all it is is opinions, right? TV, opinions, everything, it's everywhere. And at the end of the day, I'm not trying to influence anyone to believe a certain thing or believe a certain
unless, well I guess one thing I want them to believe is that we should have the freedom to think and that we should have rational discourse, you know, but I'm very upfront about that. I'm not trying to hide the ball on that one. Very obvious. So, you know, I guess I'm not completely unbiased in that regard, but I think that my take on things is probably unique in the sphere currently in what's going on. I do think that there is a move towards unbiased perspectives on
Reese Brown (19:01.132)
Yes. Right.
Reese Brown (19:06.296)
You
Carolyn Kraft (19:20.899)
issues and topics. But again, I want to take it a little further and a little bit, take a different way, a little more unique approach, which is, okay, I don't want to just regurgitate the facts of the situation in an unbiased manner. Although that is very helpful for a lot of people. support that and love it. I want to discuss what's deeper. Let's go a layer deeper. What is actually going on? What are the beliefs behind all of that? Why are people acting or believing these certain things? And I guess it really comes back to my belief, which some people may
Reese Brown (19:40.471)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (19:50.755)
may say is naive, but you know, whatever, which is I do believe that if we have free civil discourse, intellectual discourse, and we have a true understanding that we will be able to solve a lot of the issues that we currently face. And even if we can disagree, we will be able to find compromise. And a lot of people don't like compromise nowadays. And I think that further highlights how binary and divisive a lot of everything is. But the fact of the matter is, is politics is built on compromise.
Societies are built on compromise. We can't not compromise, obvious. Like sometimes we don't have to, but a lot of times we do have to compromise to a degree. And I just see, you know, people on both sides not wanting to compromise, but look where we are. We're nowhere. Nothing's changed, right? You know, it's just gotten worse. So yeah, I do, I just, believe that if we have better intellectual discourse, we'll be able to find solutions. And I think the key to that is understanding where beliefs come from and where anyone we disagree with, where
beliefs come from as well.
Reese Brown (20:52.342)
Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. And I love that there is such a clear motivation, right? I think sometimes when we see creators that are trying to stay unbiased, but they haven't necessarily, they don't necessarily have this thought through background for kind of why they're presenting in a certain way like you have, it comes across as like bearing the lead or like someone's hiding something from you and it can create this, this lack of trust with that.
creator in this parasocial way. But at least in, watching your content for me, always feels very like purposeful. And I understand why you've chosen to craft your messages in this way. And I want to talk a little bit about this, you know, belief that you have that may be naive because that's something that I am told quite often that it's like, okay, yeah, but like,
Carolyn Kraft (21:42.64)
You
Reese Brown (21:48.896)
let's be realistic or wouldn't that be nice? But like we live in, in this world and you need to bring those beliefs back down to reality. But in order to take baby steps in the right direction to create change, we have to hold on to these beliefs that even though they may seem impossible, isn't that what we're striving for? What is it that even in the face of, like you said,
Right now it's like we're not a very good spot, you know, and it's difficult and we're constantly inundated with information every day about horrible atrocities that we're seeing. It's like that's just reality. How have you personally and engaging with these things managed to maintain a belief in this idealized kind of view of the world that we really can?
Carolyn Kraft (22:27.665)
Thank
Reese Brown (22:45.304)
bridge this gap, really can reach for unity, we really can move forward in a positive, productive, expansive direction, even in the face of all of it.
Carolyn Kraft (23:01.819)
Well, part of my answer would be, maybe I'm a little crazy, but also what's the alternative? It's almost like you have nothing else to believe in but that, right? Am I just going to be incredibly pessimistic about everything and just hate my life and hate everything and just, I'm on this earth for one time, in my opinion, only one time, and I wanna make a difference. And so,
Reese Brown (23:09.238)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (23:30.629)
you know, maybe what I'm doing isn't gonna make a difference, but I'd rather live my life trying to make a difference than just throw in the towel and be like, well, it's not gonna work anyway. And again, a lot of people, you know, there's a lot of criticism out there, but I don't see a lot of solutions. And I'm trying to work on the solution, not just criticize. And so I, maybe I'm a little crazy with it and a little naive, but again, I'd rather live my life working towards something, even if that something might fail than not try at all.
Reese Brown (23:38.797)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (23:57.447)
And I also, I really believe in kind of the ripple effect. And so to me, even if I help one person, if that one person helps another person, you know what I mean? Or if that one person has a family and raises their children to think critically, that's making a huge difference. And I think in the world of social media, we see numbers of people as not meaning anything. You know, I have 21,000 followers on Instagram and I look at it and that's a ton of people. But then I look at, you know, someone who has 100,000 or somebody who has 200,000 or a million.
Reese Brown (24:01.762)
Hmm.
Carolyn Kraft (24:27.411)
And I'm like, man, like I'm a micro influencer. I'm barely anything. You know what I mean? But 21,000 people is a ton of people, you know, my last reel has like almost 300 likes. That's a lot of people. That means 300 people watch that and maybe I made a difference in a small percentage of them, but it's still a difference. So I think we, our mindset has shifted a little bit to kind of minimize the effect that we have on people because social media has made things so grand these days, but even helping a few
Reese Brown (24:36.045)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (24:46.977)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (24:57.341)
people is worth it in my opinion.
Reese Brown (25:00.002)
Yeah, absolutely. I saw something the other day that was like, you only got 300 views. That's a packed movie theater. know, it's like, let's put it into context. And it is so easy to minimize that when it is just this number. And I think it speaks to what you're trying to do as well, that it's like, let's actually ground these theories into practice. And it's really easy to say, I do believe in this or I don't believe in that, but
feel into the actual consequences of that too. Along with this, one thing that I've noticed about your channel is the like view to comment ratio is wild. And I think it makes a lot of sense for the content that you create that it does spark conversation. And I think that it's obviously very intentionally done in that
Carolyn Kraft (25:45.575)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (26:00.108)
way so that you can generate a comment section, hopefully of people thinking critically and having informed discourse, right? But of course that comes with a lot of negativity as well because it's the internet and all of that good stuff. Talk to me about that aspect of this and engaging with people about it. You create a lot of content around abortion specifically. Talk to me about.
trying to manage something where you want to stay as rooted in, I am trying to support people to think critically and have the facts and be able to utilize these facets of your own mental capacity to make up your own mind and hopefully then generally move us all in an ethical direction. How do you maintain that point of view?
while yourself being inundated with comments, not just about the world around us, but about you directly. And trying to maintain a space that is not necessarily positive, because it's like these things are all sunshine and rainbows, but like positive in the sense that it's like we're focusing on discourse, not, you know, anger and yes, exactly, exactly, yes.
Carolyn Kraft (27:05.304)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (27:19.281)
Mm-hmm.
ad hominem attacks? Yeah, Yeah, it's hard. I mean, there's a couple ways to answer that question and I'll try and cover all of them because there's obviously a personal aspect of it in that, you know, I get hate from both sides. I get hate from anyone and everyone because I will argue.
all the sides. I will point out all the sides. And so, you know, from a personal perspective, that is sometimes really hard to deal with. It is hard to go online and have somebody attack you, especially when what I'm doing is, you know, intellectually geared. And so they, they attack my intellect and that's kind of hard sometimes because, know, I put a lot of effort into, you know, these arguments and I do a lot of research. I also have to come at it with a bit of humility and realize that sometimes I do miss points.
And so, you know, the audience will point out things that I missed and, it doesn't matter how many times I go over it. I don't.
I have people helping me with the editing and sometimes I ask them for their advice on certain things I talk about because they're actually interested in the content that I do. But a lot of it, they run their own company. They're doing their own thing. They don't have time to review all my stuff. It's really just my own brain. So I'm arguing with myself in my head, but I miss things. And so I have to come at it with humility and be like, I'm okay being corrected. And even though being corrected really sucks, especially on a public forum where it's my channel.
Reese Brown (28:26.318)
Sure.
Reese Brown (28:44.77)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (28:47.913)
Now, when it comes to trying to remain neutral when it comes to these topics, that's a hard one because when I first started, I just didn't really engage with people who made arguments. Even if they were good arguments, I would not counter them. I would just let them talk.
Maybe say like, thank you if they complimented me, right? Cause I wanted to show that I was engaging, but I didn't want to make the counter argument because I was nervous that if people saw me counter the argument, they would think that was my opinion, but that wasn't my opinion. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't right. I think I'm now at the point where I've created a community enough for people to realize that if I counter someone in the comments that I'm not showing my personal opinion. So now I actually will counter people in my comments and say, well, you know, what about X, Y, and Z or lots of times
Reese Brown (29:18.316)
Right. Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (29:37.655)
people will ask questions like what do you think about this and I will or you know what's a potential rebuttal here and I'll give it and so I'll just bounce between two different arguments in the comments and stuff and if somebody comes to my page and thinks that that means that that's my opinion at the end of the day I can't control their opinion of me so I have to just kind of relinquish control on that and realize that
Reese Brown (29:43.373)
Right.
Carolyn Kraft (29:58.375)
individuals who follow me and actually engage with me on a weekly basis know that I will argue either side. I'm kind of doing that with my new counter queen video that I plan on coming out. I don't know if you saw that, but essentially I asked the audience, hey, give me opinions that you might've read online, whether you agree with them or not, and I'm going to come up with one to two counters to each of those opinions. And that's because I want people to understand that there's almost always a counter to an argument. And if you see it online,
Reese Brown (30:24.365)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (30:26.811)
You can either respond with that counter because now you are armed with that counter or you are just having, you just now have a better idea what people who disagree with you believe. And that's really important because that makes you stronger in your argument. So with all that being said, I guess what I'm trying to say is it is hard dealing with that on a personal level, but
over time you get used to it. In the very beginning was much harder, especially because I was two weeks in and one of my videos went insanely viral, like seven million views. And I was like, what? Like that was crazy to me. And so, but then over time you get used to it. And then again, when I engage with the audience, I just...
Reese Brown (30:52.108)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (30:59.776)
Hahaha!
Carolyn Kraft (31:08.185)
at this point, think I've created enough of a image for myself that they know that I'm not necessarily arguing a specific point. That being said, some people are still very mean about it and think I am. That's their opinion. I can't change it. I have had to, you know, remove some people from my page. I really try not to because I'm a very big supporter of the First Amendment. want free speech and stuff. But if you're going to harass me on multiple platforms or you're harassing other commenters,
Reese Brown (31:12.642)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (31:26.03)
Sure.
Carolyn Kraft (31:37.015)
there's this is for civil discourse you know so
Reese Brown (31:37.39)
We can't, yeah, there's a line there, absolutely. And it's hard with like, I never want to shut down discourse, you know, I never want to go there. But like you said, when we're falling into ad hominem attacks or just like being mean spirited, it's like, we're no longer in the realm of like academic discussion where we're not moving the needle in any productive way. As you
Really strive to consider all of these sides. How has this changed your personal relationship with developing your own viewpoints? Do you feel like in creating this content, your viewpoints have changed? Do you feel like you've gotten a lot stronger and more grounded into what you believed before? And now you just have more, like you said, you're kind of, you got more tools in the tool belt for
Carolyn Kraft (32:35.249)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (32:35.668)
ways to think about it maybe in your own personal life? Or do you feel like your own personal views have gotten more fluid because of the ability to argue across the spectrum?
Carolyn Kraft (32:50.885)
Yeah, my opinions have actually gotten more fluid, which is really interesting and I didn't expect to happen. I thought I would be more grounded in my opinion or I would change my opinion, but be more grounded in whatever opinion I changed. I'm always open to changing my opinion. That's the thing. Like you mentioned this earlier that we are essentially being paid to, you know, be curious. When I go into analyzing these things or learning about them,
Reese Brown (33:03.534)
Sure.
Carolyn Kraft (33:15.021)
I'm not trying to prove my own opinion right. I'm not trying to prove myself right, which is again comes back to humility, right? Like I'm humble enough to know that I'm not actually the queen of the universe. I might be a counter queen sometimes on my channel, but I'm not actually a queen. I'm not here saying that I have all the opinions. I genuinely want to learn the truth or, and it's really hard because there are some things where we actually don't have a concrete answer. We don't have a truth, right?
Reese Brown (33:31.383)
Right.
Carolyn Kraft (33:42.203)
but I want to learn more about it. And so if I look at it from an academic standpoint and from a I'm learning curiosity, humility situation, it's actually just, you know, expanding my understanding of these topics more, which is kind of making me more fluid. And it's not even that I don't have an opinion on these topics, because I do. It's more that I understand the opposing arguments so well that I understand why they might believe that. And I see credibility in a lot of these opinions.
I'm like, well, you know what? Like I do see some credibility in that. I understand why you might believe that. And as a result, that doesn't make me weaker in my opinion, but it does help me understand that maybe my solution is not the right solution. Cause that's different, right? My opinion versus my solution. Those are two different things, which a lot of people don't realize. You can have an opinion on something, but how you solve the situation, especially on the, on the scale of an entire nation or a state could be very different.
Reese Brown (34:26.542)
Mmm, yeah.
Reese Brown (34:39.67)
Yeah. And I think that that's absolutely something that we've seen change over the course of political discourse. And that's something that like a lot of people have said about the political state recently, that it's like, we used to disagree about, we agreed on the problem, but we disagreed on the solution. Now we disagree about what the problem is. Right. And I think that because a lot of these disagreements have become seemingly more like
Carolyn Kraft (35:01.436)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (35:11.032)
boiled down to what are your ethics, what are your values, and how does that directly translate to politics, the solution is kind of getting merged into your belief, your opinion, and it gets really dangerous when you conflate the two. I think it's also interesting, necessity of understanding the other side and their viewpoint, and one thing that I...
Carolyn Kraft (35:21.894)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (35:40.13)
have found myself doing the more that I understand the other side and like fully grasp their argument is, know, I thought that I had a rational, like good solid argument for this. Maybe I don't have a solid argument, but I still believe it. And getting comfortable with that. What's your two cents on that in this?
Carolyn Kraft (35:59.473)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (36:06.528)
Obviously we want to stay curious and be able to have as elegant of an argument for something as possible. But you mentioned this in one of your videos, like philosophical elegance doesn't mean it's true. And even though we really want to have this, this, kind of clean, pretty answer for something, it's like gray area does not allow for that.
Carolyn Kraft (36:20.091)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (36:34.225)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (36:35.574)
What's your thoughts on that and this like, well, both sides have some sort of logic. I just feel this way and the validity there and when does like feeling and emotion become a part of the these questions because oftentimes they are especially with things like identity politics, like feelings and emotions are a part of our
Carolyn Kraft (36:46.919)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (37:05.068)
the mapping of it all too.
Carolyn Kraft (37:09.192)
That's a great question. I think I'm trying to like remember exactly the question. So I answer it perfectly or answer it accurately. So yeah, I think people nowadays, especially are very uncomfortable with the natural tension that we live in as human beings.
Tension exists. We are never going to have full answers to everything. Tell me what consciousness is. You can't. You cannot tell me what consciousness is. Tell me the universe started. Tell me how the universe started. You can't really tell me that either. Tell me what dark exactly does a black hole do. Dark matter. Dark. I mean, it just goes on and on. mean, part, actually part of what I'm doing highlights that we do not have definitive answers for a lot of these questions. And that is okay.
Reese Brown (37:40.002)
Yep. No one can.
Carolyn Kraft (38:03.014)
It is okay if at the end of the day, you're like, you know what? I see that the opposing side could have these arguments and maybe I don't have a perfect rebuttal, but I still believe what I believe. Right. Because I think we are almost a little, and I don't know, maybe it's social media because everything's so black and white binary. And, you know, just want to tweet it out. And it's just one sentence and I, I'm not going have any explanation, but we are obsessed with this. We need to have an answer and I'm going to die on this Hill. And we also don't want to concede anything because our
Reese Brown (38:23.863)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (38:33.029)
fear is that if we concede a certain point, if we say okay the opposition might be right in this part, they're gonna you know give them an inch they're gonna take a mile. I really want to get back to the idea that it is okay to concede some points. It is okay to say you don't know.
but you still believe this. Now, of course, what's hard about that is if you are debating with someone or conversing with someone who is not a good actor, well, while intentioned actor, they will take a mile, right? They will not admit, they will not concede. But again, if we are creating a culture where people are okay with conceding, maybe the person that is across the table from you will one day concede as well and say, you know what, you make some good points as well. But the only way to get there is if we normalize that. And part of what I'm trying to do and normalize
Reese Brown (39:17.869)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (39:19.537)
that is putting yourself out there. And that means one day I might have to concede on an opinion. I might have to admit I made a mistake. did something wrong. And I think, especially in the political sphere, we see people doubling down on everything all the time. Like, I said that. that, know, they don't want to say that they ever made a mistake again, because given inch, the opposition takes a mile. But if we normalize making mistakes,
and saying, that's okay. And I, I might've changed my mind because of X, Y, and Z and giving a rational reason as to why you changed your mind. I think we might be able to tackle that issue. And so that was kind of a roundabout way or very, you know, kind of rambling way to answer that question. But I think that there
Reese Brown (39:50.156)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (40:01.029)
I think we need to admit that we do not have answers to all of these questions that is okay to not have those answers and that if you concede, you know, an argument or a point, you're also, you're okay. You're going to survive and you can still hold your opinion. But again, you have to be a rational individual when you do it. Now, if you're talking to someone and they are overly emotional, or if let's say you are, let's say you're just very emotional and you can't understand the opposing argument, then maybe I feel this way and that's my opinion is
not the best way to go about it. But if you can have a rational argument and you understand the opposition's argument and you say, okay, well, maybe X, Y, and Z, those points are correct, but I still believe what I believe because, you know, in my heart, in my soul, whatever, this is right to me. I think that's okay because you're able to engage with other people.
Reese Brown (40:50.862)
Yeah, absolutely. I think too, your point of being able to change your mind is so well taken in that there's such a fear that you're going to lose your audience. You're going to lose trust. You're going to lose your supporters, your voters, your... I'm forgetting the word for it, but like the people you represent in your district, right? And...
Carolyn Kraft (41:16.579)
Mm-hmm. Constituents?
Reese Brown (41:19.682)
constituents, thank you. But what we actually see psychologically when people are vulnerable, when people admit to wrongdoing, when people open up about these things, it always builds trust. Like there is so much research that grounds into, it's like even if we want to take the ethics out of like, okay, being able to admit when you're wrong is a good thing to do. We should all be good at that, right? But.
Carolyn Kraft (41:43.515)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (41:47.124)
even just getting into the nitty gritty of like, no, it will endear you to your constituents because they see you as human. You're not robotic. And I think that that's really part of what people are looking for from our world leaders and our nation's leaders is someone that is a human being that I can trust that feels like me, not
Carolyn Kraft (41:54.567)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (42:16.564)
someone that is just a spokesperson for a whole party or the spokesperson for an organization or a business or even a set of ideas and beliefs. Human beings want to be able to trust people and in order to have that trust, we have to have vulnerability and there is such a fear of that vulnerability. And I think even in you arguing both sides and what you talked about a little bit ago with
you know, needing to rebuttal in the comments or have counterpoints and offer opinions on both sides, there is a lot of vulnerability in that in people are gonna have their opinions about me too, right? And I'm still gonna think what I think and believe in the mission behind what you're doing, right? With this mission behind what you're doing,
Carolyn Kraft (43:00.993)
yeah.
Reese Brown (43:14.826)
One thing that I wanted to ask you about in more of the, like you said earlier, you wanna make an impact. You want to contribute something positively. You don't want to just be another voice in the cloud of, you know, whatever area your personal opinion may fall into, but you want to actually push the needle forward in terms of having grounded discussions about life's most important questions. There is this really,
interesting nature about philosophical content online that it's almost always tied to the atheist movement, which I think is really interesting. And it is so heavily male dominated. And because of that, is also, there are these sectors that get really polarized because there is the kind of like stoicism in cell
kind of avenue that we see happen. But then there's also the like hyper liberal atheist kind of avenue that happens as well. almost all of the speakers, of course, Philosophy Tube is a very popular philosophy creator who is a woman, but I think she's the only person I can think of that besides yourself that
Carolyn Kraft (44:12.761)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (44:19.548)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Kraft (44:30.214)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (44:40.446)
is like a really large voice in this way that isn't a man. Thoughts on that? I don't know. There's a lot in there, but whatever piece you wanna speak to, I'd love to hear your opinion.
Carolyn Kraft (44:46.329)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (44:53.541)
Yeah, yeah, there's a couple things that I could discuss. It's very interesting. So I also do true crime stuff, which is you probably see that on my pages. So yeah.
Reese Brown (45:00.894)
Yeah, the Karen Reed trial, my parents have been following it so closely. Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (45:06.437)
Yeah. Yeah. Super interesting. So that's, you know, it seems somewhat off brand of me, but in my opinion, it makes sense in my head because I mean, when it comes to true crime, when it comes to the courtroom, all of that, the judicial branch justice, I mean, that's all ethics. That's all philosophy, right? The laws that we have, it's based on ethics. It's based on philosophy. And a big part of what I do is like, I'm trying to essentially unravel and explain
Reese Brown (45:25.4)
Right?
Reese Brown (45:28.973)
Yes.
Carolyn Kraft (45:35.205)
the invisible forces that are kind of dictating our society or might be influencing that. And that includes justice, that includes the criminal system, right? And personally, I find it interesting and I'm a lawyer. So I like to be able to talk about that kind of stuff. So I just wanted to add that in there because it's so interesting, my audience on both of those things, philosophy and true crime, totally different.
My true crime audience is majority woman. My philosophy audience is majority male. So it's just a very big difference right there. And which actually then combined, I'm actually like 50-50 on my film channel. So yeah, and I have noticed that the philosophy kind of ethics sphere really is male dominated. I...
Reese Brown (46:06.861)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (46:10.732)
That's so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (46:21.531)
I find it more interesting. don't really have an opinion on it. I don't necessarily understand why women aren't more involved in that. mean, when I talk about reproductive rights, I definitely get more women getting involved and I get more comments and stuff. And my Instagram audience is actually pretty 50 50, which is interesting as well, because I don't do any true crime on my Instagram. It's like all philosophy and ethics on there. Right. But I think because I do a lot of reproductive rights, I pull on the woman audience a little bit more. Now.
Reese Brown (46:39.117)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (46:50.403)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (46:51.475)
I will be moving away from reproductive rights. That was kind of my starting point. And so it's going to be interesting to see how that reflects in my audience. But yeah, I don't really have an opinion on that. I do think that it would be nice to have more women in the philosophy sphere talking about these topics because I think they're incredibly important. I'm glad that I'm able to do that. Hopefully more people will in the future, but you know, we'll see.
Reese Brown (47:18.38)
Yeah, absolutely. It's just one of those things that's like, hmm, what are the hidden variables there that we may be missing or not? And I think, like you say, discussing reproductive rights as kind of a starting point for a lot of your YouTube content, it makes perfect sense that that would draw more women because it's like that, it's who it directly impacts. What?
Carolyn Kraft (47:43.269)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reese Brown (47:46.83)
topics are you excited to open up and get into it? It seems like I don't want to assume anything about your actual ideas or you know strategy behind things, but I really do like the approach you've taken of like let's take one topic deep dive for a while and then I would have to assume you'll you'll go into something else and deep dive for a little bit. What are the areas that you are really excited to
Carolyn Kraft (48:04.539)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (48:14.082)
bring your philosophy of philosophy to.
Carolyn Kraft (48:17.095)
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, it's interesting because the way I started my content is I didn't have a super long-term plan for it.
I was more kind of like I had an idea and I was like, I want to give it legs. I want to give this business idea legs. And then once it walks, we'll see where it takes me. And a large reason I have that mindset is because when I try to over control things, I have repeatedly learned that it is a bad idea and it creates a rigidity in my mind that then makes it very hard for me to pivot when I need to. So I was trying to incorporate a little bit of flexibility into my business plan, honestly.
So I'm not, and that plan is, I started this in December and I started YouTube like two months ago, so it's pretty new. So I'm still kind of learning where I wanna go and part of that is, you know, I involved true crime.
totally was not expecting to do that. That opportunity came because Sergio De Niro, who is a deception detection expert, he contacted me and we decided to do some collaborations together. And it was a really cool kind of like, you know, combination of his expertise and then my kind of legal background. And then also my background with kind of ethics and philosophy. And so I did not expect that to happen. It has happened and I'm continuing down that path because it is very interesting. And I have some.
I have some content coming out with that in the future that I'm very passionate about because from a personal perspective I do believe that a lot of people need to be more aware of what's going on with certain cases that may not get all the attention that Karen Reed's case got but should deserve, they deserve that attention, that justice, that freedom. So I will say part of me is moving into the true crime a little bit more or
Reese Brown (49:54.339)
Yeah.
Right.
Carolyn Kraft (50:04.327)
crime into my work and then trying to merge that with the more philosophical, ethical considerations and my thoughts on justice and my background as being a lawyer.
Then when it comes to the philosophical more ethical stuff, I am coming towards the end of the reproductive rights. This coming Sunday, I have a video coming out on in vitro gametogenesis IVG and the ethical considerations that we should be looking at in the future. And so after that, I think I'm going to move more towards I have an idea of the counter queen and just kind of doing counts. And that's not going to be purely reproductive rights. That's really anything I've considered doing.
a debate on gun rights. I'm interested and in line with true crime, I would actually like to do some stuff on prisons and the various opinions on prisons and how we can we should or the various opinions on that how we should handle the prison industrial complex in America what those ideas are I think would be really interesting.
So yeah, I'm a little and then you know in the back of my mind I'm like maybe I should just dive into a specific philosopher and discuss that you know belief so that people understand that so it's a little up in the air again I'm kind of like I give it legs and then I walk with it and it's somewhat
It goes where it wants to go and I move with it. sometimes correct it depending on the situation, but it's almost like a living moving object, especially because I really, I see this as a collaboration with my audience. And so the, wrote a script yesterday on an individual, her name is Sandra Burchmore and she died in...
Reese Brown (51:33.89)
Mmm.
Carolyn Kraft (51:42.735)
Canton, Massachusetts, she allegedly was murdered. And I plan on doing, you know, deep dive into the Sandra Burchmore case, because I think that that case deserves as much attention as the Karen Reed case a hundred percent. And so that's, you know, that's like one avenue I'm going on. And that kind of came up when it came to true crime. And it came up because an audience member said, you should look into the Sandra Burchmore case. And I was like, I
Reese Brown (51:56.002)
Mmm.
Carolyn Kraft (52:10.201)
Okay, I will. looked into it I was like, I agree. Like, I'm glad you suggested this and then I'm now doing a whole video on it. And so I've had audience members do that as well with philosophy and ethics. They'll say, you should look at this X, Y, and Z. I take note of it. I look into it and that kind of dictates where I go. And I really like that model. I really love doing it that way. And also I'm interested in maybe I've done this in my short form content, but
Reese Brown (52:11.319)
I will.
Reese Brown (52:15.117)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (52:29.805)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (52:35.591)
Assisted death is another one that I think would be very interesting to go into in more long term or long format at a later date. So yeah
Reese Brown (52:44.076)
Yeah, I think this intersection of philosophy and legality is really interesting, but also important. And I think because so many people are so passionate about politics, but aren't necessarily like you were saying, asking these whys for beneath their actual belief system. It's a really great entry point for a lot of people into getting into philosophy, which
Personally, I'm biased, but I'm like, I think we need to, right? It's truly grounding your belief system into your truth, right? And asking those questions. And so I think not only is it really powerful to be having this ongoing conversation with your audience, but it being topics that are so popular because of how they're legislated, I think is
Carolyn Kraft (53:21.799)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (53:39.857)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (53:40.972)
really powerful because you have a bunch of creators talking about philosophical viewpoints and ethics and the ethics behind things. And then you have creators talking about law and legality and what should we legislate and what should be codified. To have someone break this down and say, okay, we need to start with this and understanding our ethics.
but that doesn't necessarily mean it should be legislated in this certain way or how does this inform the way we think about our laws is a really beautiful conversation that I think I haven't seen opened up. And so it just makes me really excited as someone who is passionate about both of these things that these are the areas that you're wanting to go into.
Carolyn Kraft (54:12.999)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Kraft (54:26.747)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (54:31.183)
And if I could just say something to that.
Reese Brown (54:33.666)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (54:33.667)
I think a lot of people, look at topics within a silo. They're like reproductive rights here, gun rights here, assisted death here, whatever. They have all these different, but it's like there's incongruence in a lot of their opinions in that someone's opinion on abortion is this, but their opinion on gun rights is this, and it doesn't make sense. There's an incongruence there or all of that. And I really want to work on creating more intersection between these topics.
Reese Brown (54:49.293)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (55:03.661)
so that people understand that maybe there should be a little more congruence between our belief systems. And in doing that, that will help us better understand people who we disagree with, right? There actually is a lot more similarity than we realize.
You know, some people think that the right to own a gun and individuality is incredibly important. Okay. Well, the people who are pro-choice also believe individuality is very important. Both don't want government intrusion. Okay. Can we talk about how the government intrusion belief system and our opinions are based on that? And maybe we can actually have a conversation here that gets us somewhere and makes us see each other as individual human beings rather than just, you know, the enemy.
And I would love to tackle that and kind of, and I've done that a little bit on my page, but haven't done it a ton. And so that's something that, you know, over time, I think as my page develops and grows, I will be able to do a little bit more.
Reese Brown (55:57.644)
Yeah, absolutely. I completely hear that. And I love that too, because I completely agree that, I mean, obviously my company is called the Cohere Collective and the whole thing is living coherently, right? That these things should make sense across the board. And if you have a spiritual, religious or lack thereof worldview, how does that inform the way you're living every day? And how does that inform your politics and the way you treat other people in your relationships and the way you engage in community? It's like,
Carolyn Kraft (56:06.545)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (56:19.559)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (56:27.57)
all of these things should be grounded into this why. But because exactly like you said in the beginning of our conversation, we're adopting these belief systems or opinions from socialization, our family of origin, our school system, know, we're at all of the different places that we're inundated with information. And it speaks to just this one thing, exactly like you're saying. And it's like, okay.
Carolyn Kraft (56:52.508)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (56:54.668)
when we're asking the why behind that belief system, it's actually speaking to this like foundational thing. And if you're just holding these beliefs here, it's like they're kind of just floating out there. Like what actually is the like undercarriage? Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (57:05.574)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (57:08.955)
The foundation, what yeah, what's the foundation, the underpinnings of everything. Can we find roots? Can we find roots to your actual beliefs rather than they're just floating up here and they're not grounded in any, anything, you know?
Reese Brown (57:13.325)
Exactly.
Reese Brown (57:21.132)
Yes, and when you have that grounding, it's like, then we can build back up these other beliefs that actually have really solid foundations that are informed by your fundamental beliefs. And it's so easy for people to say, well, of course I believe in empathy. Of course I believe in truth. And it's like, but how is that connecting into, you know, your really strong opinion on
Carolyn Kraft (57:25.403)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (57:47.884)
gun rights. Like we need to be bridging this gap. so I just love that. think there is so much space and room for that. I also want to ask, cause you mentioned that this is really where you want to make an impact in the world, that this is, you're so passionate about it because it's like, we need to be having these conversations. Where does that drive for making this impact, having these conversations and
Carolyn Kraft (57:48.709)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reese Brown (58:17.57)
wanting to push the needle forward in a meaningful way come from for you. Like why this work?
Carolyn Kraft (58:24.645)
Yeah, that's a great question. there's a couple answers to that. So I do think that I was raised in a household that was very based on ethics, morals, all of that, not only because I was, I was raised in religion. I will say the fact that was raised in religion, while it introduced me to various theories, philosophies, all of that, right, wrong.
It didn't have the largest impact on me because my parents, they started practicing religion when I was born, pretty much. So they were learning how to do it with me. There was no blueprint for that. And so it wasn't the strongest foundation. I actually fell away from Christianity for a while, came back when I was in law school. So like four or five years ago. So relatively still knew in that regard.
Nonetheless, my dad owned a business and he was very passionate about that business. Both my parents have crazy work ethic, I'll tell you that. And he was very ethical about it. And I watched as he would not do as well as his competitors because he would not hurt.
his own employees. would not take away from the quality of his product. would not, you know what I mean? Like his competitors would lower their prices, get cheaper quality. And to give some context, he owned a fish business. It's headquartered in Honolulu, Hawaii, and it imports and exports fresh seafood around the US and around the world.
And so he wanted a high quality food and he wanted to make sure that his employees were treated well. And here's a big thing that not a lot of people know, but there's a lot of slave labor in the seafood industry. And so every time he, you know, created a business relationship with a potential distributor or supplier or whatever, he would go fly to that location and he would walk around and he would work with the employees and he would talk to them. And I went on these trips with him sometimes and he would make sure that they were given, you know, bathroom breaks, lunch breaks. They weren't overworked. They were paid appropriately, all of that. And so I was just.
Carolyn Kraft (01:00:25.459)
introduced to that at very young age and I to a degree maybe there's some nature in that as well and that I was born with some kind of fiery passion to do these things or you know I had these I was always a very bullheaded stubborn opinionated child I got in a lot of trouble as a kid because I would you know stand up for people who I thought were the underdogs or needed representation all of that and my mom you know she also
was came from a very strong background, had very strong ethics, and she was very involved in my life. My dad was working, she was a stay at home mom, and so she impacted me greatly as well in raising me to be a certain way. And then I want to say that now
God actually has a huge impact on why I do these things. It is why I believe that we should act with love and compassion when discussing these conversations and why I'm doing what I'm doing because I want to help people. I want to make the world a better place for other people. Even if I might not have a long, know, you know, my name is not going to be remembered in two generations. That's OK, because I'm helping people here now and I'm making them feel better and happier or understanding things or able to have civil conversations with their parents rather than
you know, a screaming feud that hurts a lot of people, right? And if I can do that, that's good for me. And, you know, that's good for God. So.
Reese Brown (01:01:45.248)
Yeah, no, I think that's so powerful and I like that what you spoke to really includes nature, nurture, and then overall like hierarchical worldview belief system that is so important. Yes, exactly. That is so foundational to everything, right? Whatever that is, it has to be a part of this underpinning that we're talking about,
Carolyn Kraft (01:01:56.603)
Yeah, spirituality.
Carolyn Kraft (01:02:07.953)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (01:02:10.676)
One thing that you mentioned too is really wanting to help people with this. And the thing that across like every single interview I've ever done, every single time I talk about these things, the only thing that I have found that is consistent is when people are living coherently, when they're living with this truth, it always motivates them to help other people with it. And your motivation here isn't just
Carolyn Kraft (01:02:33.53)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (01:02:39.468)
I want to understand so that I can be better informed about my opinions. want to understand so that I can, you know, engage with people in my life in this way. It's I want to understand and then stay curious to help other people do this in a really broad way. What do you think that is? That it's not just this curiosity and philosophical
mind that, yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (01:03:07.207)
Personal it's not just personal. It's not just self-fulfill or self Not self-fulfilling, but I do understand what you're saying
Reese Brown (01:03:14.186)
Right, it's not just this kind of personal journey. It's very much about the impact and about the relationship to broader community and to others because it's like we can have impact and even if you heal just yourself or have these worldviews just for yourself, that still makes the world a better place. But there is the strive to do it on a larger scale in a way that can really help these people, right? What is that piece for you?
Carolyn Kraft (01:03:43.801)
Yes, so I can't really, yeah, I can't speak to other people, you asked, know, what is that for you? I will say, I think that, and the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I want to distinguish.
my viewpoint or myself from this, but I do think that some people want to make a difference because they want affirmation. And I think you can tell a difference between individuals who are looking for affirmation versus people who actually want to make a difference. And I'm not trying to talk negatively about somebody who wants affirmation. A lot of people don't even realize that what they're looking for is affirmation when they do what they do. Right. And I'm not going to say that I don't want affirmation as well. It is very hard when I'm not affirmed. It is hard when
Reese Brown (01:04:03.054)
Mm.
Carolyn Kraft (01:04:25.299)
people disagree with me or say mean things about me or whatever. So I'm totally self aware about that and I just I try and keep that in my mind when I'm moving forward. So I do think some people are doing it especially in the social media era largely because they actually want affirmation even if they may not realize it.
I think a lot of people, though, also do it for other reasons. And so for me, a big reason why I do it is because I know how it feels to live a life where your mind is free. And people are going to disagree with me on that because they're going to say, well, psychology and propaganda and what's free will? Free will doesn't exist. That's whole thing.
But I will say that my mind is more free than other people. Okay? I can make that statement. Maybe it's not the freest mind in the world. I'm still definitely impacted by propaganda and what's around me. understand the psychology behind it.
But being aware of it gives me more the greater ability to be free and the ability to engage in these conversations and to not be emotionally triggered by these conversations is amazing. It is a great life. I am happier because of it. And I'm telling you, I'm telling this from personal experience because I'm actually a very hot headed person. And you mentioned this earlier. You asked me, how do you handle, you know, some of the audience or some of the comments, all of that. There are some comments I've gotten that have annoyed me so much that I will respond in a five paragraph
response that is a little sassy, I screenshot it delete it, keep it in the archive so I can read it to make myself feel better, but I don't press publish. I don't post it.
Reese Brown (01:05:54.574)
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I've been there. Yep, yep.
Carolyn Kraft (01:05:55.943)
So yeah, you get it. You get it. So I'm not saying I'm, you know, perfect here and I'm not, you know, emotionally affected by some of the stuff that I read, right? But I've been in a position in my younger years, especially in my teen years, where, you know, and I think a lot of people can relate to this, your emotions are going crazy and you're like, I don't know how to control this, whatever. I have very strong emotions. I'll be very opinionated and things would affect me in a way. And I wouldn't, I didn't have control over my behavior per se. It was very reactive.
and being able to look at that past and that was into undergrad as well. Like obviously it's a journey so I was getting better but I even experienced it in law school. I would say I didn't, I mean the prefrontal cortex of 25 years old, that's a real thing. That's a real thing. Probably didn't happen until around law school but I started really kind of separating from myself, reflecting personally and able to make decisions that were more.
based in freedom rather than outside control. Now that I live that life and I feel that I'm like, man, I want other people to feel that too. Like why wouldn't I want someone to live a happier life? Right?
Reese Brown (01:06:55.138)
Hmm.
Carolyn Kraft (01:07:04.807)
And so I think that's a big part of what, what inspires me is like, then another step is that then that's an individual level. Now let's take it to the societal level. If individually, everyone is freer and happier and understands people they disagree with on a societal level, maybe we can find some solutions so that we are a little happier or that we can make a difference and we can live together collectively. So yeah, that's, that's a big motivator, guess.
Reese Brown (01:07:05.004)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:07:24.941)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:07:33.26)
Yeah, no, I absolutely love that. And I completely agree that, and there's so many layers to it too, like you were just saying that it's like, is this, I know what it feels like to almost wake up to this thing that is like, my gosh, like it's always been there, but now I'm like really thinking about it. And I want other people to feel the way I do too. And I think that that's so beautiful.
Carolyn Kraft (01:07:58.395)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (01:08:01.086)
and completely agree that it's like, that's how we make the world better too. It has these ripple effects. To move into my final few questions, firstly, if anyone wants to check out Carolyn's work, I highly recommend you do, of course, links to her social pages, her YouTube channel website, all of that good stuff will be in the description down below, wherever you are listening or watching. Please go support Carolyn. Learn all about thinking critically.
Carolyn Kraft (01:08:05.18)
Mm-hmm.
Carolyn Kraft (01:08:17.296)
Okay.
Carolyn Kraft (01:08:30.855)
Thank
Reese Brown (01:08:30.894)
Of course, I clearly really support this work. So please go support Carolyn. But besides that, if there's anything else you want to plug, please do. But is there anything else that we missed or you want to go back to and highlight or underline or clarify in light of this conversation? This is a little bit of time just for you. If there's anything you want to make sure that we cover.
Carolyn Kraft (01:08:57.477)
You know, I don't think so. You were great at giving interviews. Like you asked great questions. You really pay attention. You're a great listener. Your questions are like chef's kiss. So I will say, I thought this conversation was awesome and I'm delighted by how it's gone. And I can't really at the time think of anything that I want to expand on, but you know, I don't know. Maybe we'll have another interview in the future if there's anything else I can think of or if you want to talk about something.
Reese Brown (01:09:01.006)
Thank you.
Reese Brown (01:09:20.429)
Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Thank you so much. I so appreciate that is it's I it's what I love doing like getting paid to be curious but I also say all the time like if nothing else the podcast is an excuse to ask inappropriate questions that it's like at parties I want to be like so why do you do what you do? Do you believe in God? What's going on here? It's like you can't say that but it's like here I can
Carolyn Kraft (01:09:27.119)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (01:09:44.356)
Yeah.
Carolyn Kraft (01:09:49.465)
It's awesome. No, I'm very similar. I struggle with small talk. very, I want to like get into the meat of things. I will say, I think that I kind of struggle. I think asking questions on camera for some reason, I feel very different in front of a camera than I do like not in front of camera. I'm still getting used to that. So, you know, I'm taking notes on what you're doing. Cause I'm like, wow, she's like really good at this.
Reese Brown (01:10:12.152)
Thank I so appreciate that, that means so much. My last question to, of course we've been all over the place, to hopefully put some sort of button or bow on this conversation, what is one word to describe how you're feeling right now?
Carolyn Kraft (01:10:34.725)
Man, in lawyer sense, I want to say it depends, but I'm feeling hopeful. I'm feeling very hopeful. I'm feeling that in relation to this conversation we just had.
And also just in general with the work that I've been doing. I think this was a very productive conversation. I'm very excited for your followers and subscribers to listen to it. I'm very excited for mine to listen to it. think that, you know, I'm not very personal on my page and I'm trying to be more personal. I want to connect with, you know, the audience, the individuals who follow me. This is a great opportunity for that. So I'm very excited for them to learn a little bit more about the why behind what I'm doing. And I'm just hopeful that
it makes a difference, that maybe something that we said in this conversation sticks in their head and makes a difference. And so I'm hopeful about that. And then hopeful about the future of crafty thinking. I'm very excited. yeah. And then again, great questions, great conversations. So yeah.
Reese Brown (01:11:37.058)
Thank you so much. No, I absolutely adore that. think, you know, if we have nothing else, we always have hope and I, the different layers of hope here. It's like the hope for expansion within our audiences, but also within our impact and with making the world a better place. I have so enjoyed our conversation. Carolyn, I cannot thank you enough for your time and energy and vulnerability and expertise that you've shared here today.
Thank you so, much.
Carolyn Kraft (01:12:07.087)
Yeah, well, thank you for having me on again. It was amazing. Had a great time. And thank you for your questions, your attention, your listening abilities, and for inviting me on this channel.
Reese Brown (01:12:17.438)
Absolutely.