Refusing to Forget the Self: Healing through Art, Self-Discovery, and Community with Loveth Heard
Reese Brown (00:00.643)
So we're going. Well, Loveth, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I'm so excited. It's so good to see you. And I can't wait to jump into conversation.
Loveth Heard (00:13.666)
same here. Thank you for having me, Reese!
Reese Brown (00:16.749)
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, the first question that I always start with just to try and set the tone for our time together is what is one thing you're grateful for?
Loveth Heard (00:28.557)
Wow, I'm grateful to be self-aware. I would say that. Yeah.
Reese Brown (00:37.881)
Hmm. What is self-aware look like to you? Because I think that's really beautiful and important for growth, but I think it's also a word that is overused a lot. And a lot of people may think that they're self-aware, but we all have blind spots on ourselves, right? So not to like project anything, but what does that self-awareness mean slash look like to you?
Loveth Heard (00:54.124)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (01:06.317)
Yeah, I would say my ability to honestly take accountability when someone is either telling me that I hurt them or telling me that I'm wrong or me realizing that I'm wrong. Just kind of recognizing my humanity and others too.
I feel like that's what it means for me to be self-aware because I find a lot of people, because yeah, it's a super easy term to like throw around. And there's been so many times where I haven't been a self-aware and I've said that and I also am not, I have so much more to be self-aware about. But oh my gosh, yeah, as a young 23 year old, but as of now, I think.
Reese Brown (01:45.841)
We all do, we all do.
Loveth Heard (01:52.595)
with what's going on, it's really important for us to be self-aware enough to take accountability for our actions of the past, present, and future for the sake of everyone around us. And yeah, I'm very grateful to at least start to understand like what needs to be done. So yeah, I would say that.
Reese Brown (02:13.925)
Yeah, totally. I think that's so beautiful. like, to be able to celebrate that, you know, you have started and you are on the path. I think that's something that for people trying to, I guess this is just a self-report, but trying to like do justice work and grow and be a better person, it's easy to, like the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.
and it's easy to just continue to beat yourself up. And it's important to also have the space and time to celebrate the ways in which you have grown and you are getting better and you are learning. So I love that. Second question to really just give us a foundation to jump off of, what is your story? It's a very big question, but whatever you feel called to share in this moment is perfect.
Loveth Heard (02:41.837)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (02:57.271)
Thank you.
Loveth Heard (03:04.033)
my gosh. Yeah.
Loveth Heard (03:10.942)
Yeah, wait, I love that question. My story, I mean, I feel like, obviously, I'm coming to understand it. I like one day, in an act of like, journaling, I was like, I'm going to start my memoir. And I was like, I have a horrible memory. So I want to write everything that's happened to me.
So I don't forget it when I'm older, because there's already so many things I've forgotten at 23. Who knows what I'm going to forget at 46. So I don't know. I started my memoir, and I was just kind of like, I want to write my story. And I don't want it to all be about my traumas, but I would say, yeah, I went to Lake Hill Preparatory School. And that's where I met Reese.
Reese Brown (04:00.401)
You
Loveth Heard (04:05.159)
And honestly, just kind of realize like what it means to have such personal connections on an everyday level, like whether it's within your control or not. And I think that's, right? Like that's what got me started is realizing like going to the same little private school that I went to for such a long
like those personal connections over the years is what got me through it. Like regardless of my experiences at the school or outside of school. And I think that kind of that expectation kind of came with me into college. And that's when I started to realize I'm a very personal person, but also there's so much more going on too. Like I'm an artistic person. I'm
I like to say this ironically, a social justice warrior. So, and like, I'm also pretty intelligent and I'm like self-realized neurodiversion, et cetera. And I think, yeah, that kind of started just so much of my spiritual journey and trying to connect to myself and find things that allow me to express myself.
and honestly just heal. So I think like, you know, finding those close personal connections through COVID is something that a part of my story. And that just kind of opened my whole horizon to like Chicago and like the artist, artistic scene. And also like realizing how important it is to collaborate with people and being around people that you feel safe.
to do so with in so many ways, not just artistically, but yeah, just kind of moving out of my hometown made me realize so many different things about myself and one of them being like photography, which is awesome. And also my special interest for psychology and astrology and spirituality and also what it means to be a human being.
Reese Brown (05:59.238)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (06:28.458)
and holding on so tightly to our humanity in such a tumultuous time. yeah. But yeah, so my story is like every experience and connection that's brought me to here right now and realizing that all of that is the reason why I'm like doing what I'm doing. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, that makes sense.
Reese Brown (06:36.568)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (06:54.799)
Yeah, no, that's, yeah, absolutely. That's beautiful. And thank you for sharing. I think I just so relate to, especially in you talking about like the multifaceted nature of this story, but it's like they all hinge on this piece that is like connection, whether that be a connection to yourself or to community or to other people or.
to a higher power spiritual reality, right? I just absolutely love that. And I think that that has been a really important part of my journey too, is in seeing the way that all of these are connected. What do you think, I mean, this is like asking you to put something indescribable into words. So apologies for that upfront. the thing, what do you think it is that draws you to all of these different
Loveth Heard (07:45.85)
Hahaha!
Loveth Heard (07:49.577)
you
Reese Brown (07:52.599)
seemingly disparate parts of life that clearly are very interrelated, whether it be astrology or social justice or writing, photography, art, just all of these different avenues. What's the piece that those intersect in for you? What is it that sparks that drive?
Loveth Heard (08:21.841)
Yeah, I would say the humanity of it all. feel like that's probably gonna be the main thing for me. Like I, as someone who has like grown up to be very dissociative, but also have a very eccentric personality, I feel like there's so many times where I felt disconnected from my own humanity and didn't realize like,
how much emotion and passion that I do have for so many things. Like not just like, yeah, it's like, it kind of felt so blurry until I realized that like this goes so much deeper and has so many different roots and can go and look like so many different things. And like the pure connection of it all is like at the end of the day, like,
I feel like that the center is clinging to my humanity. When it comes to photography, for example, I love a finished product of seeing how beautiful people are and also how awesome fashion is. I would consider myself a fashion photographer, but just feeling so satisfied of like, wow, two people came together to make this happen and it looks awesome. And we're gonna get praised for it. And then we're onto the next.
We all love attention, like let's be real. Like, and also accepting that I love attention and like that, like that's not always a bad thing. And I feel like I've kind of just always seen that as like something that's bad. And like for society, that's like so individualistic. I'm like, no shit. Can you hear me? I'm sorry. Yeah.
Reese Brown (09:53.935)
Right?
Reese Brown (10:15.845)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (10:17.481)
Okay, no shit. Like, no shit. Yeah, that we want attention. So yeah, I'm like, just like realizing these things that I kind of thought were bad about myself and like reframing us to like, oh, why did I think this is bad about myself? What caused me to feel this way? And realizing like, there are people to point fingers to capitalism.
Reese Brown (10:18.353)
Yes, yes, no, you're good, you're good.
Loveth Heard (10:45.274)
You know what I mean? Like capitalism, the patriarchy, all that stuff. And it's like clinging on to like, like the fact that I'm connecting more with myself and my humanity is allowing me to realize so many things externally that have contributed to me forgetting myself. I'm like, I'm going to make it a mission to remember myself and whatever needs to be done to make that happen. Like I'm going to do.
Reese Brown (10:47.472)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (11:14.463)
And it's not bad to do that. Like, I don't know. We all feel guilty for doing things for ourselves, but it's not bad.
Reese Brown (11:18.349)
No, it's, yeah, no, if anything, it's radical. Like that is justice in and of itself, right? It's like in a world that wants you to be a cog in the machine saying, no, I am it. And it's not a finished product, but it's not a product to begin with. Like, why are we trying to commodify human beings to begin with?
Loveth Heard (11:35.035)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (11:46.403)
Right. Right.
Reese Brown (11:47.645)
just let it like be in bloom in and for itself. That's so beautiful. And I love what you're saying about attention to you're so speaking to my Leo moon, clearly as someone with four podcasts, yeah, love attention, but I totally agree that it's like, why are these things considered bad? And it's because of the way that wanting attention, wanting to be
Loveth Heard (12:00.547)
Hahaha
Yeah.
Reese Brown (12:16.433)
admired or at the center of something for what you do is a threat to the status quo, inherently. Your point is taken so well, that in the structures and power dynamics that we've inherited and internalized, there is so much of self-love being radical in the face of that.
Loveth Heard (12:25.02)
Yup.
Loveth Heard (12:36.807)
you
Loveth Heard (12:43.409)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (12:44.977)
is. And earlier you said like healing was one of these things that's been really, really important. And I think hearing you talk about like your memoir and this refusal to forget yourself, like that is so powerful. And can you tell me a little bit about what that maybe moment of inspiration where you realized
Loveth Heard (12:49.287)
Mm.
Loveth Heard (13:00.196)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (13:11.363)
I have been forgetting myself. Well, and maybe it wasn't even that. Don't let me put anything onto your story. But the, the inciting moment of I'm going to remember myself. When did that hit you? And what was that like?
Loveth Heard (13:17.883)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (13:23.408)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (13:27.057)
my gosh. mean, I feel like something that I had to accept is like I've chosen to be so passive in so many situations. And once like that passivity started to turn into rage, was like, my rage needs to be listened to. Like I need to be listening to my rage and realizing like that is just showing me so much about the injustices, not only against myself, but so many other people.
Like, and it started with like paying attention to what's going on around the world. I was enraged and I'm like, that's humanity right there. It's the fact that has this technically shouldn't have anything to do with me, but it literally is all I'm thinking about. Therefore, like, let's talk about it. And then starting to understand that like those injustices across the world are happening right here and internally.
So realizing that I needed to address, okay, I'm not gonna forget these people that are suffering. And I can't do that if I'm forgetting myself. And then realizing so many situations where I feel like I did forget myself, but also trying not to internalize being a victim and just...
so much of that, like back and forth, back and forth, low key like gaslighting myself. I'm like, no, no, no. Like my feelings are valid. And like, let's focus on that first and like feeling that and like letting my feelings show me what needs to be addressed, period. And yeah, I feel like it's still manifesting in a lot of anger, but I'm trying to use that to my advantage. And
like making sure doesn't get out of control, but like if it does, like in the right context of like, people are dying. Let's be really mad about it. Let's do something guys, you know, like we really can use that to our advantage. It's not all bad. And also just realizing like as a black person too, and being around so many white people growing up, like how many times I betrayed myself.
Reese Brown (15:31.397)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (15:37.957)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (15:53.102)
because I was scared that I was going to be depicted as an angry black woman. And it's just so easy to fall into that pattern. And then you start working in a corporate world and realize how easy it is to be painted as an angry black woman. But I don't care anymore. Like if you're going to paint me as an angry black woman, I'm angry. And let's talk about why I'm mad. So
Reese Brown (16:21.741)
Yeah, well, like you said, people are being murdered. We should be mad. to turn away from that anger, mean, exactly like you said, to turn away from that anger is turning away from the people that atrocities are being committed against. And that is a turning away from the self. You have to turn away from your own humanity.
Loveth Heard (16:22.401)
Okay, yeah.
Loveth Heard (16:26.63)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Reese Brown (16:49.617)
to turn away from that, from those people's humanity, to be able to numb yourself to the violence that is happening is to numb yourself, right? And you can't, the wise words of Brene Brown, you can't selectively numb. It's numbing to everything. And I love what you said about rage too, that it is productive, right? Like all of the cliches and analogies of like,
Loveth Heard (16:59.148)
Right. Thanks, Ar.
Loveth Heard (17:06.724)
Hmm.
Reese Brown (17:18.049)
Fire is purifying and like, you need to, there's the seeds that need to be burned before they can grow. But one thing I've really been thinking about with fire too is how it's not just, I think when we think of rage, you think of like a blazing bonfire that's like all or nothing, but it can also be the thing that like, stokes your hearth to keep community going. That is like the gathering point, the connection point.
Loveth Heard (17:47.044)
Thank
Reese Brown (17:48.101)
that you can gently stoke and tend to. And it's also the thing that warms your food and your heart on a cold night. It's really generative in a lot of ways. And it's so connected to love. We would not feel rage if we did not love because, I would have to imagine, please correct me if I'm wrong, the reason why you are so angry is because of the depth of the love that you feel.
Loveth Heard (18:07.288)
Right.
Reese Brown (18:16.505)
for the people that are being wronged. And I think that's really beautiful. And getting comfortable with my own rage is something I've been on a journey with for sure. But I'd love to know more about your journey with that anger specifically. And obviously, like you said, being depicted as the angry black woman, is, it's an archetype for a reason, because it is continually fallen back on. And actually just today,
Loveth Heard (18:16.612)
I'm sorry.
Loveth Heard (18:28.804)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (18:37.326)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Reese Brown (18:46.201)
was the statue of the Black woman in Times Square and all the discourse online that's going on about it. It just popped up on my feed. it's just so fascinating to see the ways in which seeing each other's humanity has to be the thing that we return to time and time again, right? But yeah, talk to me about rage specifically and
Loveth Heard (19:11.447)
Right? Right.
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (19:16.183)
when you felt like you first started tapping into that.
Loveth Heard (19:19.908)
Mm-hmm. I guess it started with me feeling, my gosh, I guess it started with my therapist. Shout out to my therapist. I mean, right, shout out to all of our therapists for real, especially in a time like this where like, it's really hard to therapy a lot of our issues, period.
Reese Brown (19:33.915)
Shout out to all of our therapists.
Loveth Heard (19:47.239)
And like we are coming to therapy to talk about that and our therapists and I hope least my therapist has like an abolitionist frame of mind and is very aware of how much rage we should be having about what's going on. And it started with like me sharing issues and how passionate and angry I was about them with certain people who weren't as angry about them. And I kind of was like, wait,
why aren't you as angry? Should I be this angry? And just kind of like second guessing like why I should be, why I'm so mad and then like being told that like I shouldn't be as mad as I am because I should be focusing on my immediate reality and what I can control right in front of me. And I just, and I started to realize how, what a cop out that is. Like.
Reese Brown (20:40.228)
Yeah!
Loveth Heard (20:41.123)
Yeah, because like you're basically telling me to put my empathy and humanity aside and just focus on what's going on in front of me. But what's going on in front of me is also what's going on over there. So it's like once you like deeply start to realize that the root of a lot of our issues are because of the system as it is, and like how much relief and happiness and joy we might feel.
if those problems were addressed, then you start to be mad. I'm like, my gosh, like, why am I the only one that's realizing how easy these things can be fixed if you guys just use your humanity, use your race, rage for good, instead of being very passive about what's going on right now. Passivity is not going to get us anywhere. Passivity is the reason we are here right now. And I'm also like seeing perspectives about like just this whole
Reese Brown (21:33.04)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (21:39.619)
concepts of rage being projected onto people of color. But this rage started with colonialism. This rage started with white Europeans coming over to our, like wherever, whatever. It started with white Europeans being very mad, like right? I'm like everywhere. Just being really mad and doing like
Reese Brown (21:57.199)
Yeah, basically everywhere.
Loveth Heard (22:06.816)
really bad things about things and being very violent and then like, you know, obviously slavery and you know, whipping people. It's like these ideologies, these rage, all the things that were the example that you guys said, you're getting mad that we're using it now. And then you're just putting it onto black people when it's like you who started it. And it's you who gets very enraged when
people point fingers at you for being wrong. And it's it's kind of crazy to like, you know, kind of just realize how valid my rage is and how for so long how that's just been painted in a different narrative. And then just like realizing once again how many times I forgot myself. And that just made me more and more mad. And I would say this started about like,
Reese Brown (22:45.509)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (23:04.46)
kind of last year, once I like kind of graduated college and realized what it means to be an adult in America. And especially an adult who is not going to follow a traditional corporate path, like I wanna be a therapist and I wanna do it ethically. I'm not, there's a lot of things that are unethical about work. And I'm just, yeah, I'm not gonna just do something for money that doesn't align.
Reese Brown (23:12.421)
Yeah, yeah.
Loveth Heard (23:33.247)
me. But so it kind of just started with me realizing like, if I'm not going to forgive myself, and every area, then like, that's just gonna look kind of, it's gonna look a little hard for a while until I get there. So recognizing that that realizing like, not everything is as sweet as it looks. and just kind of processing that and then validating my rage, like
through it all and making sure I'm not being invalidated for being enraged. That's just kind of how it started. obviously I'm still processing it, but I'm allowing it to show me much more than just ignoring it and then choosing the path of least resistance. I personally realized that's not gonna get me anywhere. So yeah, I would say that's my journey with rage right now.
Reese Brown (24:15.654)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (24:27.787)
Yeah, no, that's so beautiful. I think finding a way, like our emotions are messages, right? I think it's kind of a falsehood to say any feeling is good or bad. It's what arises when you're in experience, in the human experience. to, I think, I mean, exactly like you were saying, being taught to stifle
Loveth Heard (24:28.947)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (24:34.593)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (24:56.111)
that rage and that anger because it's ugly, because it's uncomfortable, because it doesn't, it makes you not palatable. It makes you uncomfortable to be around. And it's like, well, why are we, why do you want to be comfortable with these things that we should be deeply uncomfortable with? And we need to get better at forcing the discomfort and really feeling that.
Loveth Heard (25:07.702)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (25:15.157)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (25:24.337)
I wanna go back to Lake Hill in your story because obviously that's where we met. And I don't know, it's just crazy. I love doing episodes with old friends because it's such a full circle moment to think about like how much we have grown and like where we are in a different place in our life. Like it's just, life is a beautiful, wild, weird thing.
Loveth Heard (25:44.404)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Reese Brown (25:52.585)
And one thing I've been thinking about a lot lately is the way that for the longest time in my head, I considered Lake Hill like a liberal bubble, right? That it was like this liberal thing that we could all kind of have this worldview that we all knew kind of what everyone thought and it was good and safe and push in that direction.
Loveth Heard (26:03.744)
you
Reese Brown (26:20.821)
and coming to really go back into memory and deconstruct and rethink a lot of what was taught and a lot of what wasn't said and how even learning about the difference between neoliberalism and progressivism and the distinction there and just how, because it was maybe more liberal than other schools and communities that I had been in,
Loveth Heard (26:31.396)
Mmm.
Loveth Heard (26:39.904)
Hmm.
Loveth Heard (26:49.994)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (26:50.021)
There's also still like, so much of this is the water that we swim in and you don't even realize, right? Yeah, I don't know if there's a question in there, how has looking back on different experiences in your life, and I suppose like Hill specifically, remind me, are you a lifer?
Loveth Heard (26:58.826)
Right, right, right.
Loveth Heard (27:05.022)
You
Loveth Heard (27:15.476)
Yes!
Reese Brown (27:16.913)
Okay, okay, I thought so, I thought so. But yeah, what was your relationship like to the kind of social dynamic in a small affluent, secular,
Loveth Heard (27:29.823)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (27:33.241)
I hesitate to use the word liberal, cause what does that word even mean anymore? But like liberal community. And how do you think that has informed your growth journey, both in positives and negatives?
Loveth Heard (27:39.007)
Mm.
Loveth Heard (27:45.127)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (27:52.884)
Wow, yeah. Great question. Wow. mean, like, honestly, I guess I, since I went there in my whole life, I never saw Lake Hill as liberal. I don't know. That's, yeah. And I guess it's because I was so deep in it. And I'm like, as a black person, like you just experiences, like experience different kinds of injustices and just obviously microaggressions and don't realize it until you're out of it and grow.
Reese Brown (28:12.122)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (28:22.525)
So that's kind of what happened to me. But I felt like, I don't know, just, yeah, I felt like I think race needed to be talked about much more.
I am very grateful for Lake Hill in ways, honestly, just because it definitely was a community and for that it was rather diverse and attempted to be inclusive, I would say. And that does go a pretty far way in Texas. like, don't get me like, I understand like exactly what you mean. And I definitely like how it wasn't like,
Reese Brown (29:02.309)
Right.
Loveth Heard (29:07.559)
you know, a religious school or anything, definitely was a space for all these different religions. So I felt like I was exposed to a good amount of things in that area that I didn't realize would benefit me until like I moved out of Texas. Now I'm like, even though I came from Texas, I still went to a rather diverse school. And even though I like racial things happen.
like I never got like beat up because I was black or anything. but I feel like as someone who is neurodiversion coming from Lake Hill, there was no education on what it meant to be neurodiversion. And I know when, as a person who has worked with autistic kids and realized that a lot of autistic children or their parents,
Reese Brown (29:36.368)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (30:06.15)
if they're not going to a specific school, like would rather them go to private school. And like leaving Lake Hill, I'm just kind of realizing like after the facts, like neurodiversion traits of a lot of people at the school that I feel like not a lot of people, but I just feel like there should have been more neurodiversion education.
Like, especially when it comes to like friend groups and like being clicky and stuff and like people who weren't really involved in that and like realizing who would get like the short end of the stick. Like I wouldn't say people were like actively bullying, but you know, kids are mean.
Reese Brown (30:45.953)
there are things I look back on and I'm like, no, that was bad and I cannot believe I didn't say something, you know? And just being like, holy shit. this is from, and so like, I guess in what I'm saying that it's like, when you're in it and it's like using the fact that it's like, well, we're secular, we're liberal, we're forward thinking, it almost becomes a,
Loveth Heard (30:51.175)
But no
Loveth Heard (30:55.349)
sing. Yeah.
Reese Brown (31:14.353)
like a cover with which these other things go unsaid. And not to say that, you you shouldn't constantly be trying and progressing and growing at all, but yeah, I think the more that I learned, the more I'm like, whoa, that like there were times that I was like looking back, I'm like, no, I was a bully.
Loveth Heard (31:16.509)
Mm.
Loveth Heard (31:20.721)
Right.
Loveth Heard (31:29.947)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (31:41.615)
that was a bullying thing that I did and I hold a lot of shame and guilt over. that was even minimum clicky and all sorts of stuff. So, sorry, I totally interrupted. Please keep going.
Loveth Heard (31:42.222)
Yeah. Yeah.
Loveth Heard (31:48.967)
Great.
Loveth Heard (31:53.095)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. No, no, exactly. Like, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know. I, one, have put a lot of that stuff deep, deep down. And I'm like still actively working through it and trying to remember. Like literally one of the reasons I started my memoir is like to remember what happened at Lake Hill. Cause it was such a crazy experience. like there's even like it started, I think everything for me when I started to realize like,
Reese Brown (32:18.981)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (32:25.073)
how bad things kind of really were for me and like the place that I was was like when I was, when COVID happened and I got a minute to slow down for the first time in my life. And like, my gosh, just process. Like I went to the same school for 13 years and I was this person in this friend group and whoa, what just happened? And like I was in all these activities. I was this social and I'm like shut down.
Reese Brown (32:36.825)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (32:55.005)
autistic meltdown to like the definition. And that's just kind of what made me realize like, Whoa, what just happened? And like hold myself accountable for like the role that I played in so many things too. And like the dissociative nature of like being around the same people for literally every day of your life. Like it's just, it's, yeah, it's just like this deep.
Reese Brown (32:56.282)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (33:07.387)
Yeah!
Reese Brown (33:18.159)
Yeah. Yeah!
Loveth Heard (33:23.376)
So many things to work through for sure. And like that's school for you. And it's a private school, small and stuff. But yeah, I felt like I started to realize my race for the first time too, for real. And I started to feel like I genuinely think that was like one of the moments that made me start to process like that I needed to recognize my worth as a black person, as a black woman.
Reese Brown (33:28.301)
Right.
Reese Brown (33:36.313)
Wow.
Loveth Heard (33:51.045)
as a queer person, like just so much. Cause yeah, I don't know. It was a pretty, a lot of suppression, a lot of repression and a lot of once again, racial instances from teachers, students and yeah, lot like some homophobia too, just like not even
Reese Brown (34:07.844)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (34:17.424)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (34:18.011)
Like just so many things that I wish that the school staffing talked about, just to give us some education. Like, hey guys, we have a pretty big neurodiversion population. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about that you should not be treating people differently based off of how they behave or like the fact that they don't want to talk to you. Let's talk about that. And let's realize that this is a diverse school and what that means and how you should be treating people that look differently from you.
Reese Brown (34:23.61)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (34:44.08)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (34:46.644)
And just so many things, like if you're going to incorporate all these diverse people in the name of being liberal, make sure you're educating your staff and your students on how to address each other. So you don't have like situations like this where like we're still processing that crazy little time of our lives. Yeah.
Reese Brown (34:54.65)
Right.
Reese Brown (34:59.6)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (35:03.332)
Yeah!
Yeah, totally. And I think, completely agree. And I think the neurodiversity piece is one that I think is so fascinating because, I mean, you talk to anyone about Lake Hill now and it's like, wait, hold on. What happened? It's like, yeah, I did put vice president of sticker club on my college application. That is the thing that I did. It's like, is that?
Loveth Heard (35:09.18)
Okay.
Loveth Heard (35:23.292)
We'll right back.
Loveth Heard (35:31.729)
Yes!
No i-
Reese Brown (35:36.705)
Hmm, like water bottle flipping club was an actual thing. Like, like let's, let's think about it. Let's think about it. And fit like, it should be something that is, like you said, talked about and not just like existing without being addressed. Because I think like you're saying then it becomes something that is
Loveth Heard (35:41.637)
Hey!
Loveth Heard (35:47.316)
my gosh.
Reese Brown (36:01.231)
almost like taut repression because it's like you don't even realize that you're not talking about the very things that you're doing. And that creates like this mind body disconnect where it's like, what is even, how are these things going back and forth? They're just not, cause you're just going about your day, but you're totally checked out of it. You're not almost associative. Like you were saying, and the amount of conversations I've had with people from Lake Hill,
Loveth Heard (36:14.17)
my god.
Loveth Heard (36:26.597)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (36:30.789)
that is like, I think I'm autistic. That is a thing that I'm coming to learn. And it's like, girl, I think we all are, I mean, obviously it's a spectrum, right? The more information that we learn about autism and different neurodiversity, what's the right, like labels or whatever, it's the spectrum.
Loveth Heard (36:35.707)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (36:42.99)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (36:51.557)
Mm.
Loveth Heard (36:57.051)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (37:01.169)
But I do think that that's so fascinating that a lot of people were attracted to Lake Hill in that it was this community of very different people. But I think you're so right that that difference wasn't always handled with the most grace. Yeah. So I guess I'd like to hear more about the neurodiversity realization for you. Yeah.
Loveth Heard (37:19.126)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reese Brown (37:30.521)
I have another question, but we'll start there, because I don't want to throw too many questions at you at once. But what was that like in coming to like this point of self-discovery? how would you characterize your relationship to it now in terms of like it being a...
Loveth Heard (37:42.234)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (37:53.366)
know, labels are so complicated and I think they're really just shorthand because you can't get into your entire life story every time you have a conversation with someone. So of course it's more than just that one label, but what's your relationship to that look like and how did you get to that point?
Loveth Heard (38:02.01)
You
Loveth Heard (38:10.092)
Yeah, my gosh, I guess kind of realizing what it meant to be autistic. I am self-realized autistic. That's what I am labeling myself as, something that I process in therapy. And once I realized that, which was like two years ago, like it started with me being like telling my friend like, hey, I think I'm autistic. And she's autistic. She's like, yeah, you are.
I was like, thank you so much. No, literally. Yeah. And that was like the, almost cried. was like, this is the most validating thing you could have said to me because, and like when I immediately like, or initially, realized that about myself, I got so angry because I was like, there's been so many times where I felt betrayed.
Reese Brown (38:41.201)
She was like, yeah.
Reese Brown (39:01.211)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (39:06.945)
because I didn't understand this about myself and I wasn't able to explain this or felt like there's so many friendships that could have been like saved if they really understood that this is what I identify as or this is what I am. And just like, yeah, goes all the way back to Lake Hill and just kind of like this underlying like bullying, but people also being like, you're really cool and eccentric. It's just
weird, like singling you out for being special and like you're this entertainment spectacle. it was just so bad. And like another reason why I have so much rage, because I'm like, I am not just entertainment, like literally just misunderstood and like, and just realizing the neurodiversions in my family and like that they didn't even know anything about that.
Reese Brown (39:53.392)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (40:04.512)
And that's why like I didn't nobody went to seek a diagnosis or anything. So yeah, just feeling really, I was just feeling really upset, but I also felt so relieved and happy and grateful because I'm like, I can finally understand myself and understand so many things that like have just felt like just a blur or gray area. And that was so liberating, honestly.
Reese Brown (40:08.121)
Right?
Loveth Heard (40:32.352)
it also just made my time at Lake Hill make so much more sense. Cause I was like, this is why I like low key thrived. Like even though I was extremely dissociative, like this is actually the environment I needed to be in, in order to get through school and like going through, going to college and like starting online while I was going through like a severe meltdown.
Reese Brown (40:37.531)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (41:00.223)
Like I was like, okay, like this is exactly what I need right now because I do not have the capacity for anything more. And yeah, just realizing my capacity for things and honoring that and then starting to realize also how much rest is resistance. And that like as a whole other thing that's really liberated me to that term, I quote from Trisha Hersey.
Reese Brown (41:22.501)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (41:29.61)
of the Nat Ministry, she has a book, is Resistance, and she's from Chicago. But yeah, she's really awesome. like her, what all the Nat Ministry, what she's gotten going on has allowed me to honor as a Black person and as a Black person who comes from like, you know, low class to middle class family, like how much rest.
We need a rest. my gosh, we need a rest. like realizing, like noticing my parents, for example, like kind of as they age out and not age out. my gosh, they're great people, but just like age, like just like age and stuff and like having to work so hard to make means, like make ends meet. And
Reese Brown (42:15.051)
No. Yeah.
Loveth Heard (42:27.082)
like me encouraging them to accept that yeah it's okay if you're resting now like don't feel like you're betraying yourself because you're resting like you need to rest and I want you to process that and realize how much you are doing a service for yourself by resting so yeah
Reese Brown (42:43.589)
Yeah. Well, and to you and your entire family too when they rest, right? Like not only does that set an example and like normalize it, because no matter how old you get, your parents are always like in the hierarchy of family, which is this weird built-in thing. But it's like parents always kind of set the tone of family gatherings, right? And
Loveth Heard (42:51.809)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (43:03.608)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (43:11.045)
It does set that example of like, no, this is a healthy thing to do for all of y'all. But also, like you said, honoring themselves and what a beautiful gift to
Loveth Heard (43:16.449)
Great.
Reese Brown (43:25.873)
the whole family that it's like, you've worked so hard for us, at least that that's how I try and frame it to my parents is like, this is, you've earned this, you deserve it, you have worked hard and also you don't need to earn it, right? Like even unthinking that piece of it that's like, hey, I've worked hard, I deserve the rest. And it's like, you're a human being, you deserve rest.
Loveth Heard (43:29.739)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (43:37.751)
Great.
Loveth Heard (43:42.494)
Yeah, my gosh.
Loveth Heard (43:55.295)
Right. Period. Exactly.
Reese Brown (43:55.386)
Right?
I really love hearing about your conversations with your parents, because I think that's such a big part of growing up. And a lot of healing work is with our parents and with our family of origin. And I have gotten really lucky to have parents that want to have that conversation with me. And even if they don't understand, and even if we're still working on certain things, or it takes time to get to certain places, they're always willing to have that conversation.
Loveth Heard (44:09.879)
Mm.
Loveth Heard (44:16.439)
Mm.
Loveth Heard (44:25.495)
Mm.
Reese Brown (44:28.425)
And I have always felt like they're open to learning from me, especially as I started coming into my own. It's like, no, I want to hear your thoughts and your feedback. You're not just my kid anymore. You're now an intellectual equal. And we can have deeper, important conversations about life, but also about our relationship. How is?
Loveth Heard (44:34.227)
Mmm.
Reese Brown (44:54.287)
that been for you? Because I know you mentioned too with like the neurodiversity in your family and how I don't want you to put any of your family members on blast, of course, but just in the in your relationship to being able to have these conversations after you've had realizations, what is that looked like for you and felt like to try and bring some of the healing to to your family?
Loveth Heard (44:59.062)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (45:03.509)
Great.
Loveth Heard (45:13.494)
you
Loveth Heard (45:22.952)
Yeah, my gosh, I feel like I've literally answered each question with, my gosh, thanks for asking.
Reese Brown (45:29.297)
No, it's perfect. I always go, I love that. And then onto the next question. So it's like, I get it. You're good.
Loveth Heard (45:36.746)
Hahaha!
Yeah, I mean, I guess when I started my healing journey, it started with me like healing from a breakup in high school. Obviously I could say anything, but yeah, it started with me healing from a breakup in high school during COVID. And I think that's when I started to get really spiritual and I started to share with my parents.
that I don't think I'm Christian anymore. And I think that was the most vulnerable thing that I've ever shared with them because I knew how betrayed they feel. And I think that's what started with me. That's what started me feeling comfortable sharing like potentially problematic, uncomfortable things with my parents of like, I'm gonna be myself and y'all are gonna have good.
deal with it. Like if anybody's gonna be my, if their selves is gonna be me. So here's what's going on. And as I started to have realizations about myself, I also started to deal with a lot of things with my parents that I felt like obviously needed to be addressed. And since we were like just living in the same home for like, until I went up to the call, up till obviously before then.
Reese Brown (46:44.859)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (47:06.357)
But we were in each other's space up until I moved to Chicago. It just caused, we had lot of serious talks and a lot of it included queer things. So that was the main.
Reese Brown (47:09.328)
Right.
Loveth Heard (47:29.855)
topic and like queer things in the Bible and then starting to get educated on the Bible and realizing like that a Theologist my professor is telling me that the Bible is contradicting itself Therefore not all of it is true. That's okay I'm that has nothing to do with Christianity like all of this is a message and it doesn't mean that every single thing is a fact like and I'm not saying that like
Reese Brown (47:32.101)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (47:58.142)
your religion is invalid because of that. I'm just telling you the facts and what I learned from my university. So, yeah, as we started to have more complex conversations and then once I finally came out as queer, that was like a very intense time for everybody. And yeah, just felt, yeah, once again,
more encouraged to share things about myself, but also ask them questions too. Because I'm like, we're in this very vulnerable time. You guys know what's going on with me. Like, can I share some advice on like how to deal with your stuff? Because honestly, like I'm not trying to parent y'all, but as we heal from things that, know, interactions with our parents as we grow up.
Reese Brown (48:38.246)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (48:43.607)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (48:57.317)
It's like, I know I got into a habit of wanting to even try to get them to take accountability, even try to like, therapy them because I was therapy myself, stuff like that. So, and that is not always healthy because I guess you kind of realize that like there's a lot of things that when people at a certain age in their life, like they're pretty set in some of their ways.
Reese Brown (49:04.94)
Yeah, yeah.
Reese Brown (49:26.832)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (49:27.284)
And if you have the intention of changing them, it can be harmful to you if you know they're not going to change. So yeah, I'm at a point where I love my parents. I respect my parents. But I'm grateful to also be able to share my opinions, regardless of how they're going to take them. And I'm also grateful to be at a place where
Reese Brown (49:52.816)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (49:55.439)
If they want to share an opinion, we can have a conversation about it without it blowing up. And that has taken a long, long, long journey to get there. Yeah.
Reese Brown (49:59.961)
Yeah. Yeah.
Reese Brown (50:06.797)
Right. Well, and to be able to respect each other as people, to see each other's humanity despite it all, right? Even if you disagree on something fundamentally that is really powerful. Also, just quickly, I know that it said some of this in the information I sent over, but I didn't clarify at the beginning and I want to throw it out there. If I ask anything and you're like, I don't want to talk about that, we do not have to just
Loveth Heard (50:14.216)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (50:31.101)
Yeah.
Yeah! Okay.
Reese Brown (50:36.485)
We'll move past it, absolutely. And if you share anything after the fact, you're like, can you take that out? Absolutely. Just let me know. just so you know. Sorry I didn't clarify that at the beginning. Another thing that I did want to ask about is coming to realize that you're queer.
Loveth Heard (50:43.675)
Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. No, you're good.
Loveth Heard (50:53.83)
you
Reese Brown (51:01.755)
having all of these realizations around the same time, like just what a...
It's like the tower card in tarot, right? Like there's something so beautiful about it. Like I love hate getting the tower cause it's like, fucking A. What are we going to go through? But then also like, you know that you need to tear things down to be able to have a solid foundation to build from. My mentor says rock bottom is the solid foundation on which you can build your life.
Loveth Heard (51:19.749)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (51:33.521)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (51:39.021)
So I guess it sounds like that's the other piece of this kind of paradigm shift in your life. How did that realization find you and what is your relationship to that look like now as, know, cause I think with all of these things, they continue to shift and grow with us too. So how have, has that continued to grow and shape you the more you get to know yourself?
Loveth Heard (51:47.347)
Bye.
Loveth Heard (51:54.886)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (52:00.615)
Mm-hmm. Great.
Loveth Heard (52:07.419)
Yeah, well, I guess also at the end of senior year, like right before I went to college, I realized that I was.
I'm like, what am I? I'm like, yeah, I'm queer. I like people. I like everybody. Yeah, let's say that. And I guess it started with me thinking I just like girls, but I love everybody, honestly. And I kind of knew that growing up, but so much shame around that coming from a very religious and Christian family.
Reese Brown (52:43.814)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (52:50.381)
Yeah, who holds pretty problematic values and beliefs about that stuff. And it was super scary. but coming to Chicago and like immediately connecting with all of the queers, I was like, okay, this is so valid. This is so valid. I feel so safe here to like be myself. And this is awesome. And started
Reese Brown (53:10.415)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (53:19.718)
to understand that my queerness went deeper into me realizing that I am non-binary and how liberating that also is as an autistic person and just pinpointing the feeling of what it means to just be a human being who's always felt as just that and has everybody else gender me and really not.
Fuck with that. And I'm just so grateful to, to like have a community that also feels the same way and like be able to have an identity that placates exactly how I feel and having the freedom to do that. And just so much more on being free and
like realizing how important it is to be free was like the
Reese Brown (54:19.791)
Mmm.
Loveth Heard (54:24.42)
like pinpoint like it was a it was a part where I realized I'm like I gotta yeah I really care about this stuff I really care about feeling free and being free and making sure anybody who wants to be whatever the fuck they want to be can be because they can and like just getting really passionate about that but I'm like to this day like
It's been a whole journey of like, personally, like, not really giving a fuck about how anybody sees me, like, at all. cause I'm realizing like, people aren't gonna have their opinions, and people are just gonna choose to not understand because it's just too hard, and it's too different from like, what they've known and complicated, which I don't think is. But maybe it's because like, I am a part of a generation.
Reese Brown (54:57.327)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (55:21.615)
that is like, come on, like just get with the times. Like literally, you also don't really have to care about what anybody else is doing. Like that's, it's just as easy as that. Like if you have problems, whatever, but like you don't have to say anything or you don't have to be hateful about it. Like it's just, I don't know. And to get that kind of energy from my family.
Reese Brown (55:41.136)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (55:50.501)
has been something that I've been processing and working through recently. And it's really hard, honestly, because I never thought that I was going to be so passionate about something that also has something to do with me, and that it was going to be so important to a point where I don't even know if I can truly, genuinely interact with people who don't see it the way that I do. And it's not even like,
Reese Brown (56:06.416)
Right?
Reese Brown (56:17.818)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (56:18.743)
It's just a disagree to agree situation. It's just like, these are people's lives and rights and like that should be the main thing that we're focusing on, right? Really. Yeah.
Reese Brown (56:30.777)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. think it's so powerful to, just your whole story and it goes back to kind of at the beginning when you were talking about like your artistry as well as your spirituality, as well as your social justice journey and all of these things. It's like your external world almost mirrors your internal world in having like
Loveth Heard (56:58.256)
you
Reese Brown (56:59.205)
these different journeys and experiences that all come back and connect with you and who you are and your humanity. And just like you said in the beginning, that really is the uniting thread. And I think your journey beautifully examples why seeing your own humanity and starting from the place of your own self-love is so important to be able to do that for other people because in you being able to radically
Loveth Heard (57:07.257)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (57:24.176)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (57:27.505)
love yourself and create freedom for yourself in an environment where you feel safe to do so, you're also doing that for other people. In the same way you're talking about the safety that you found in Chicago community, you do that for those people there too. It's so reciprocal and that really is freedom. That is freedom to completely just be, just be.
Loveth Heard (57:35.45)
Right.
Loveth Heard (57:43.748)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (57:49.424)
See you.
Reese Brown (57:55.289)
And it's like with everything in the sociopolitical sphere about freedom and democracy, think your point is just so well taken, truly. I do want to make sure we don't miss talking about knotted lace or your creative journey. So I guess I'll just ask, what is it like?
Loveth Heard (58:09.2)
Thank you.
Reese Brown (58:23.995)
coming into your own as a creative as well in this kind of part of your identity and falling in love or maybe discovering a love of photography, however you describe it, and then being able to share it with other people as collaborators in the magazine that you work on, Zine. I'm forgetting, do you call it a magazine? Yeah, magazine, okay, nodded lace.
Loveth Heard (58:26.532)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (58:43.3)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (58:49.548)
Yeah, it's a magazine.
Reese Brown (58:53.981)
and being able to do creative work in collaboration too and what the creative process is to you. How do you describe your relationship to creativity?
Loveth Heard (59:04.176)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, I guess facing imposter syndrome is probably the biggest thing that I've had to learn as a photographer. Like, I hesitated for so long to even call myself a photographer. I'm like, I'm just taking pictures and I want to be good at it. And I'm not as good as other people. So I'm not a photographer, like just fighting that.
was like the hardest thing for the longest time until like I finally put my work out there on my main and I got like very positive feedback. And like obviously that validated me and I was like, I wanna do more. So like I kind of put out there like I'm looking for models, it's gonna be free photo shoots. So come on and like so many people reached out.
And just to see my work then from now has also, I'm like, I've gotten so much better. I know what it takes to not make someone look completely orange in a picture. That was, God I figured that one out. But yeah, just accepting that even though my work might not have been that great in my eyes, then I immediately learned from it. And that's what it like.
that's what you need to take from so many things is that like, you're gonna make a mistake, you gotta learn from it. And it doesn't mean you're not worth it. It doesn't mean you're not the real deal. And it doesn't mean you're not gonna get better, like continuously. And then, yeah, once I started to just like see that like, I was pretty good at this and I had a good eye, I think that's the main thing is recognizing like, from within that like,
Loveth Heard (01:00:59.479)
I see things that are beautiful and that's a beautiful thing to like freaking have, a beautiful trait to possess. And like wanting things to look good and accepting exactly what you're seeing in front of you as beautiful and like also recognizing that like you're seeing someone in your eyes and they look amazing but this person who sees that picture thinks they don't look good. And I'm like, what the fuck? Like that's crazy.
Reese Brown (01:01:05.435)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:01:27.735)
And it started to make me realize how many pictures I probably felt like I look awful in, but I actually looked amazing in because other people said I looked amazing. So it's just so much to work through about what it means to be beautiful. So that was awesome. And then over time, I was just making so many connections with people. I think that's how it started.
Reese Brown (01:01:31.887)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:01:53.74)
me really getting involved in Chicago's DIY artistic underground scene. I started to go to a lot of events here with like my best friend, Sonia, and just to see like how many artists were doing it and like believed in themselves and like the community they had here already. And I'm like, this is new to me because like one, this is my first time being an adult. Like I've never been to a DIY scene, but to also know that like,
these are underground artists really like making music and it's not like SZA or something. Like it was just mind boggling. I was like, why is this like my first time recognizing people's worth? I'm just kidding. No, people are awesome. But yeah, so that was, yeah. Yeah, then I started to like take pictures at those events and then like fast forward to like a few months ago.
In December, this person, Collette, she reached out to me. We've been mutuals for years and she's a friend of mine, a friend, Hannah, who happens to be my first photo shoot of me reaching out to people. It was a full circle moment. She was the one that connected me to Collette and she's the creative, I think, I don't know if I said that, creative director of the magazine. I literally can't remember if I said that, but yes.
Reese Brown (01:03:12.08)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:03:20.748)
And she was like, will you take my pictures for not it lace for like the creative directors page? And I was like, absolutely. And we met up, I took her pictures and she is so dope. And I really connected with her. The pictures turned out amazing. And then in February, I was like, let's get lunch. And this happened to be two days before me and my ex broke up, well.
We got lunch and started to talk more about the magazine. And she was just kind of telling me like, like that the point of the magazine is to highlight Chicago's artistic underground scene. And I was like, wait, dude, that's perfect. I've been in there. I'm all about that. It's like, I am all about that. Please let me like beyond like, let me work with you. I can help out or whatever. And like the next day I met with the team.
Reese Brown (01:04:13.549)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:04:20.381)
and it's like just a team of five people and like everybody was super talented and had so much to offer. And like the graphic designer, like she showed me what she was, what she had going. And I was like, wait, we've got something really good here. Like this looks really good. and yeah, it was like on from there. And like, we definitely talked about, we talked about roles at that time. And I.
Reese Brown (01:04:37.476)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:04:49.47)
at the time wanted to be more of an event planning role. And like, photographer, obviously, but mainly event photographer. And then like, as we started to talk more, sorry, can you hear me? Yeah. As we started to talk more,
Reese Brown (01:05:05.765)
Yeah, yeah, you're good.
Loveth Heard (01:05:13.801)
We actually-
Reese Brown (01:05:14.599)
I just lost you. it was me.
Can you hear me?
Oh it's me.
Reese Brown (01:05:31.953)
Can you hear me? rats.
Loveth Heard (01:05:33.94)
Yes, I'm so sorry.
Reese Brown (01:05:37.371)
There you are. Okay, I'm... Yes, sorry. That was totally on my end. I may... Okay. Can you still hear me?
Loveth Heard (01:05:37.91)
Can you hear me?
Loveth Heard (01:05:44.064)
Okay.
Loveth Heard (01:05:47.84)
Yeah, I can hear you.
Reese Brown (01:05:49.361)
Okay, perfect. Sorry about that. Italy Wi-Fi is unpredictable just like everything else in Italy.
Loveth Heard (01:05:54.175)
No words.
Loveth Heard (01:05:59.308)
I'm like, no worries, me too.
Reese Brown (01:06:01.905)
Okay, but yes, so y'all were talking about roles and you wanted to be more events at the beginning, but then...
Loveth Heard (01:06:12.636)
Mm hmm. Yeah, so we started talking about like, making doing another for another photo shoot of Liz and Collette. So Liz is the graphic designer and Collette is a creative director and they wanted to do a photo shoot kind of focused on them as a unit just because like Liz like graphically designed the whole magazine and like put together all of these artists submissions and so many artists submitted.
So that was awesome too, just to like realize how many people were were interested in being a part of this magazine. And obviously like who doesn't want their work out there? So that's kind of how that started. And then we like kind of settled on like after that photo shoot, those pictures turned out amazing again. so Collette kind of broke down the roles and my role was like artistic director for future issues.
Reese Brown (01:06:46.725)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:06:53.573)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:07:13.402)
So going, mean, wait, let's, let me pause for a quick. Because I'm like, where am I going with this? I don't even know where to, because I'm, feel like I don't even, can you like ask me another question? Like, so I got, yeah, I'm like.
Reese Brown (01:07:20.016)
You're good.
Reese Brown (01:07:32.575)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah!
Loveth Heard (01:07:35.531)
feel like I got that part out, but there's like more obviously leading up to this day and I don't really know how to get there without just rambling forever. Okay.
Reese Brown (01:07:42.689)
Yeah, no, no, that's okay. So what is the collaborative process like now? Because obviously, like creating an art magazine, it's like you're featuring artists, but what you're doing as a team is also art and using your skills together. So what is that process like now that
You are a team and you have titles and you work together as young people that want to both feature your own art, but also encourage art for other people. But to do that with an eye towards creativity. I would, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would assume ethically as well, since that is so important to you.
Loveth Heard (01:08:32.954)
Yeah, it's been such a learning process, honestly. like, because the first issue, like I didn't hop on the team until like, it was pretty much done. So that's like my role was like to take the pictures for the creative directors page. And then after that, we were rolling on the event planning. So that's kind of like what when I hopped in was to start our first launch party. And that
I started to realize how well we actually do work together and a lot of like minds. so Sid is the project manager. So I was working under them slash with them. And that's what kind of just made me realize, I'm like, we've got a good thing going. Like not only do we have a very intelligent, talented team, but everybody gets along really well. And I think that's like the main like,
That's how I collaborate best, is if I trust you to make sure we can get something good going. So after the first launch party was a total success, we had over 150 people show up. We made all the money back for the magazines and the event space. And there was a lot of vendors there. We had musical performers.
And just to see how many people showed up who wanted to be involved and to support us was so validating and gave us such a boost to get the next issue rolling. So I think that's when Collette and I started talking and realized my role as artistic director was more so me going to be her right-hand man, just because I know we were all so passionate about making this work.
Reese Brown (01:10:24.623)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:10:25.507)
And like, also, once again, making meaning in such a hard, hard time. Like, because we're all are like, well, like, we all are post grads working at jobs we do not want to work. Like, what can we do to like make put our hearts and souls into something to literally make meaning. And so I think that's like, once you realize we were both very passionate about the project and like,
Reese Brown (01:10:33.072)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:10:44.762)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:10:54.503)
had a lot of similar ideas. Like we got rolling on issue two with concepts and kind of like social media content, like how that was gonna be laid out and how we were gonna do submissions and like make this an LLC, making sure people had waivers. Like you inspired me too with the waivers. I was like, we need to be making sure we have waivers to people's rights.
Reese Brown (01:11:14.825)
Loveth Heard (01:11:19.336)
like the first issue didn't have that and like it's gonna be the real deal we need to make sure like this is ethical too like like there were some concerns too with you know submissions just like a lot of learning experience and like being like highs and lows for real so yeah people are very like we're all very receptive to feedback and I think that kind of was like another thing that and continued us like inspired us to continue to work together
Reese Brown (01:11:24.656)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:11:35.323)
Totally.
Reese Brown (01:11:49.893)
Yeah, I love that and I love...
what you said about making meaning, obviously, but it's like the ability, think so often we talk about making meaning as though it's like all or nothing, that it's like, has to be the sole force factor in your life. And it's like, it's gonna be that whether you want it to be or not anyways. So.
Loveth Heard (01:12:19.24)
Right.
Reese Brown (01:12:19.665)
It's really more about allowing, I think. And like you said, like we're working jobs that we don't love, but you know, like you said, capitalism, you gotta pay the bills and you have to eat food, unfortunately. And the basics of human living aren't guaranteed to us. And finding a way to feed your soul while you feed your body is like,
Loveth Heard (01:12:46.844)
Yeah
Reese Brown (01:12:47.725)
innate to the human experience. And I think that's so beautiful that not only y'all have done, created a space for you to do that for each other and yourselves in this community, but you're creating a space for other people to do that too. And as knotted lace continues to grow, it's going to be a place for other artists to do that too. Like I have goosebumps thinking about it. It's so beautiful.
Loveth Heard (01:12:59.794)
you
Right.
Loveth Heard (01:13:13.288)
You
Reese Brown (01:13:14.733)
and just completely generative from creativity, from your heart for community and creativity. And I just have all the admiration in the world for that. Last question, before we dive into closing it out, we are recording on the Scorpio full moon. It's about to be actual time for the full moon when it hits, but...
Loveth Heard (01:13:16.2)
Thank you.
Loveth Heard (01:13:33.554)
Mm-hmm.
Reese Brown (01:13:40.561)
Talk to me about astrology and spirituality. I know you mentioned deconstruction a little bit, but what has your journey been like with that and discovering that element and that side of yourself too?
Loveth Heard (01:13:43.9)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:13:48.422)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (01:13:59.592)
Yeah. This also started freshman year of college, my special interest in astrology. Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed. As an autistic person, I like, as time went by, I started to realize like anything that allows me to understand myself and my behaviors is super important. It's like so awesome. But, and just to like even
attempt to understand others too. Like, I think that's what really got me and for it to actually have some like factual.
Reese Brown (01:14:31.846)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:14:40.709)
I don't even know how to say factual backing. Like it just makes sense. Yeah, like it just makes sense. And like starting to like really understand like what my sun sign, moon sign, rising, Mercury, Venus, all of that meant and how much it really does resonate with me. And then like, also like leaning into more of like life patterns, life cycles, timing, and obviously the moon.
Reese Brown (01:14:43.599)
Yeah, like grounding. Yeah. Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:15:10.439)
just made me feel more connected to the earth because it once again made more meaning for like why we're here. Like it just started, everything just started to make a little bit more sense. I'm like, we're on this planet in space and there's a moon that moves the tides and we're 70 % water. of course, like, of course this is going to affect us. Of course the stars have something to do with what's going on in my head and my.
Reese Brown (01:15:21.883)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:15:40.895)
So, it just started to validate my existence just a little bit more and provide me just more of an explanation on like why people move the way they do. And then also, like, I also got into Tarot and I have a Green Witch Oracle deck. My love, I love her, but I've got back into her recently.
Yeah, just because I do feel rather spiritually connected and any message I'll take. Like, yes, you're right. I did need to hear this. This resonates with me right now. Thank you. So yeah.
Reese Brown (01:16:17.623)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:16:24.579)
Yeah, that's so beautiful. I saw like a real or a TikTok or something the other day that said, astrology is just as true as Christianity is, except we don't tell gay people to hate themselves. And then of course, all the comments are like, actually astrology has some scientific backing too, right? And I'm like, yeah, like that's kind of the thing is like, not only is it not a thing, but it's like even for those out there who
aren't big in astrology or tarot or occult or metaphysic world, I completely agree with you that it's like, even if I am completely making it up and my subconscious is making meaning out of these things, if it makes you a better person, like if it gives you something to work on and grow with, like who am I to say no? And also I like thinking that I am connected to
Loveth Heard (01:17:11.707)
Mm-hmm.
Loveth Heard (01:17:17.187)
Exactly.
Reese Brown (01:17:20.515)
everyone around me and the universe and that makes me a better person. So I completely agree. I love that. To go into our closing questions, firstly, thank you so much. If any of our listeners are curious about you, your photography, knotted lace or anything else,
Loveth Heard (01:17:29.028)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:17:37.615)
Yeah
Reese Brown (01:17:43.995)
All of your links will be in the video notes, the podcast description, all of the good stuff. So everybody please go check Loveith out. Spread the love, right? So there's that. But in light of the conversation we had and everything we talked about, is there anything that you want to clarify, reemphasize?
Loveth Heard (01:17:56.407)
Yes. Thank you.
Reese Brown (01:18:09.842)
return to or anything we missed that you want to add. This is space for you to go anywhere that you want to go.
Loveth Heard (01:18:19.415)
Yeah, I mean, I would say recognize your worth. Recognize that you have inherent value by being a human being. You don't have to do anything to deserve that. And I hope that that allows you to take steps that need to be taken to feel okay at end of the day.
Also, totally okay to not feel okay. There's a lot going on in the world. Give yourself grace. Rest when you can. If you feel like you're sleeping too much, it's because you need to rest. So don't feel that way. But yeah, thank you so much, Reese, for having me on here. I feel so heard and validated right now. I'm like super grateful to even be here.
Reese Brown (01:19:08.283)
Yeah.
Loveth Heard (01:19:18.383)
today and like to have connected with you at Lake Hill. I've literally made such great connections from that crazy little school. So yeah, what a crazy little experience. And yeah, thanks for having me for real. feel, I feel awesome.
Reese Brown (01:19:31.823)
It is crazy. Yeah, my, of course. I'm so glad. My last question, just to put a little button on our conversation is what is one word to describe how you're feeling right now? I know you just threw out a few, but if you could pick one.
Loveth Heard (01:19:49.46)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. relieved. I would say I feel relieved.
Reese Brown (01:19:55.889)
Oh, that's so beautiful. Can I ask why?
Loveth Heard (01:19:59.736)
Mm-hmm.
I mean, I was a little nervous for this because I do talk and you never know what's going to come out of my mouth sometimes. But I feel super relieved to have said what I said and I feel confident about everything that was said. yeah.
Reese Brown (01:20:07.011)
Yeah.
Reese Brown (01:20:22.671)
I'm so glad you absolutely should. I'm so glad you do. And I'm so grateful that this is the platform that you chose to say all of those beautiful things at and share it with me and with the Coheer Collective. So thank you so much. Love it.
Loveth Heard (01:20:39.266)
Yes, thank you, Reese.