Acting as a Path to Compassion and Self-Discovery with Cathryn Hartt

Reese Brown (00:00.118)

Miss Hart, thank you so, so very much for your time this morning slash this evening. It is, I mean, you know how much I love you and this is just such.

Cathryn Hartt (00:16.571)

Can I have to interrupt with your fabulous introduction? Reese Cakes, I'm sorry, but that is actually her official name with me. One of my favorite people I have ever known in my entire life. And I have not seen you for a while. I, you know, I'm so proud of you. I see everything you do. I still tell stories about you because I use you as an example of one of the best people I have ever known in my life.

And so, no, it is an honor for me. I am so thrilled to get to be here with one of my favorite people in the whole world. Thank you for putting up with me. And I told her I'm going to try not to curse. I am a good person, but I had my second husband, and so I deserve to say all these words out of my mouth. So there you go. OK.

Reese Brown (01:06.51)

It's true. It is absolutely true. That means the entire world to me and I'm just so excited to be catching up and able to chat because listeners will know who Miss Hart is. because I... No, all of the good wonderful best things. Right, right. Just the torture and butt kicking bits.

Cathryn Hartt (01:26.591)

What have you done? You should have had a plan now.

Reese Brown (01:35.874)

That's all. And cursing. No. And the love and the kindness and truth and all of that good stuff too. So I am just so excited. And my first question is just what is one thing you're grateful for right now to start with a little bit of gratitude.

Cathryn Hartt (01:36.441)

Yes, interesting. But you did not pick that up for me. Thank you.

Cathryn Hartt (02:01.494)

Well, you know, that's such a big question. But and we are living in the world that we're living in right now. And and I am living in America, living in America world right now. And so there's always it's kind of the way I look at acting when I teach acting and stuff that as a human being, there's so many layers about you. never one thing. I mean, you can love and hate someone at the same time. You can laugh and cry at the same time.

You can be living in a world where buildings are falling down around you and watch children playing in the street. And there are, you have horrors and joy at the same time. So this is one of those worlds that we live in right now where it's the best of times and it's the worst of times. And gee, I wish I'd written that. But it is, but I think what I appreciate is that

It's an honor to live anytime. It's an honor. You must always find like, where's the beauty? Where's the joy? Because if you don't, if you can't find joy in your toughest moments, then you really, I don't think have joy when there's good stuff. It's just you're waiting for someone to make you happy for a second, because you actually don't have any happiness inside of your heart. But if you can have the worst day of your life and look and see a pinprick of

light and that's what I kind of do is like you can look at the world and if everything is going is very crappy that's not really a real curse word it's a mediocre one kind of crappy then all you see is crap and you feel like your life is just crap and it gets overwhelming but if you have a pinprick of light and everyone has at least a pinprick a little pinprick of light

Reese Brown (03:45.859)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (03:58.019)

and you focus on that pinprick of light. And when I first applied this, it was one of the worst times of my whole life. I'd lost everything. It was horrible. I can't even talk about what was going on because it's not, you you just don't want to know about this. It was horrible. And I really just wanted to commit suicide, honestly. That made me happy thinking about like, wow, let me see at Christmas. I'll say goodbye to everyone I love. Have to make sure my dog is going to be okay.

I mean, that made me happy. So you don't want to be there. Some of you may, but you must never commit suicide until tomorrow because tomorrow you're gonna wake up, it's gonna be the best day of your life. And you're gonna like, thank goodness I didn't commit suicide. But what I started doing was I started looking at my dog. That's the only thing in my life that was good and kind and hopeful. Everything else was like the worst day. If anyone told me they had a bad day, said,

I can top that. That was my moment of glory of the day. And so I would look at my dog and I would pet her and I would love her. And then pretty soon I noticed that it was a pretty day and that made me feel good. And then I noticed my neighbor across the street was waving at me and I waved back. So what I'm grateful for is the never ending hope, never giving up.

I will never give up that there is still kindness in the world. Kindness can get me through anything and that little glimmer of light, I also, that's what kindness feels like. So that gets me through pretty much everything. So I'm sorry, I'm a long winded answerer, but Reese knows that about me. I never shut up, never.

Reese Brown (05:48.638)

No, it's perfect. mean, as someone with a few podcasts, I certainly, learned from the best. So long winded answers are absolutely welcome here. My second question. Yeah. My second question is always what is your story? But you just touched on it a little bit. And I think the overarching theme really is this hope prevails.

Cathryn Hartt (06:02.714)

Okay, I'm taking credit for

Reese Brown (06:17.366)

Right? Kindness prevails and that you can find that, like you said, the pinprick of light in anything and humanity, even at the depths of despair is still about being felt. And I think the thing that I really want to ask about with your story specifically is how acting and performance does come into play for you. Because I think when I was little,

Cathryn Hartt (06:18.138)

Thank you.

Cathryn Hartt (06:23.642)

huh.

Reese Brown (06:46.182)

and I first had the dream of being an actor, I had this idea of being able to like change the world through acting. And I believed that it was possible, but I think the older I got, the more I felt like, well, acting isn't really social justice, acting isn't really political activism, acting isn't really like, isn't that what? Vain and...

narcissistic people do, and I never really believed it, but that voice kind of comes in and it's like you're just telling yourself that you want to change the world through this thing, that you what you actually want is to be the center of attention or to do these other things. And I think of the many lessons that I learned sitting in your classroom, one of them was the way that performance in acting actually teaches us the depths of

the human experience and humanity. So yeah, I would love to hear more about why that has been a prevailing theme throughout your life and the way that it has shaped your story and shaped this ability for you to feel that pinprick of light, even in the moments of despair.

Cathryn Hartt (08:05.684)

Well, you know, I started as a kid actor and I always loved it. My sister is also an actress. She's an actress named Morgan Fairchild, for some people might still know who she is. To me, she's the best sister in the world. We've done many protests together. I was telling you off record earlier. we she was very, very shy when she was a small child.

Reese Brown (08:26.552)

you

Cathryn Hartt (08:32.792)

Like she was so shy that in elementary school, she would not, or I guess middle school, she wouldn't, she had to get up in front of her class to do a book report and she couldn't talk and she got up three days in a row and was like catatonic. So the teacher called my mom and said, my mom had a very big personality. And she said, I'm afraid your child is going to have a big problem in life. And so my mom said,

No, she's not. And so she sent us to a little acting school. Now, I was always a big tomboy and just let me do I'm serious. I will do anything. I'll jump off the cliff. And Morgan, my sister be like, wait a second, Catherine, you know, it's like 1000 feet and it'll kill you. So let's make a plan. Let's jump. So

Reese Brown (09:13.134)

you

Cathryn Hartt (09:28.77)

That's our different personalities. And so we went to this little acting school and she was terrified. She would throw up every week before class, but she was more terrified of my mother if she didn't go to class and she wasn't going to class. So she went and towards the end we got to do a little play and she felt I can hide behind the makeup and the costume and that helped her take a step out. Now my sister happens to be, she's an actress, but she happens to be a

a major genius, like major genius. And like her, all of her best friends, or she has a few actors, but mostly they're scientists and you know, and these people that discover things and then she's like, you know, my gosh, you discovered this new dig, can I come on the dig with you? She just loved anthropology, everything. I mean, she just has a mind that just loves everything. And she came to me one day.

towards the end of the school year of our little acting class and she said, Kathy, don't call me Kathy, my name is Katherine. I changed it to Katherine because I don't like Kathy. Okay, but at that time I was Kathy. Kathy, I made a very important decision in my life. Did I mention my sister was about 10 years old when she was talking like this, but she always talked like she was very smart. She'd be like, hmm, you know, like she didn't learn how to talk like, da da da da.

Reese Brown (10:51.363)

Right.

Cathryn Hartt (10:56.386)

She didn't say a word and then came home from a birthday party and sang happy birthday all the way through and said, mom, could you get that thing off the top shelf for me? That's my sister. And she observed, some of us are observers. And she said, I made this very important decision in my life. And I said, what is it? And she said, I have decided I don't want to spend my life alone in my room reading wonderful books about other people's lives. I have decided.

that I am going to live a wonderful life that someone would want to write one of those wonderful books about instead. So her fear of not living was stronger than her fear of living. she went through hell because I was her protector. That was my job. I carried her luggage. I beat people off if they were bothering her. She was the little shy, sickly albino kind of little kid.

And I was a little, you know, tough, let me, I'm gonna party with ya. And so we've always been very, very close because we're close in age. very, very different personalities. But that, those two girls, my mother raised both of us and she raised us to be kind and good and have morals. No matter if you became a famous celebrity or if you work in the kitchen, you're all the same.

and to always treat everybody and everything the same. And I remember one time, I think I must've been getting a big head because I was very successful as a young actress. I worked all the time. And I must've been thinking I was something because I remember at one point I was working in this theater and they informed me that I was gonna be cleaning the bathrooms as well as starring in the show. And so I cleaned the bathroom and I realized that

Someone does that job. And I wanted to do a really good job of it. And that's where I learned the lesson of, you know, it's an honor to do an honest day's work. And everybody's little thing you do or big thing you do, it all matters. And every body matters. And going up in the theater, I learned compassion because I grew up in the 50s and 60s. It was still colored people.

Reese Brown (13:02.381)

Mm-hmm.

Cathryn Hartt (13:19.29)

drinking fountains when I was a small kid, but I worked in the theater. All of my friends are black, white, green, purple, gay, whatever it was like, and they were all smart and wonderful and kind and I loved them. So I had just this most wonderful, God just took me in his hands and said, I need you to be compassionate and empathetic and to, that is what acting is really all about.

being to step into another person's skin and try to understand how they feel. It is not enough to be compassionate in my book. You must be empathetic. Now, of course you can't really, but as an actor you have to try. And you were right, Reese, that there's both because there are total egotistical actors. And I don't know how many times I probably told you guys in class was, I don't care if you win an Academy Award or not.

Reese Brown (14:05.006)

Mm.

Cathryn Hartt (14:18.2)

I mean, we're gonna work, you're gonna be great. I care if I run into you on the street and I look in your eyes and I don't see the same kind, good person you were born in that I saw in my classes. If I don't see that person, I see someone that's holding a big award and just full of themselves, my heart will break and I might punch you in the face, although I promise I've stopped doing that. But it's the most important thing in your life.

Reese Brown (14:21.187)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (14:45.914)

No one goes on your deathbed to say, look at my awards, everybody. You say, who isn't here that I love? And so, and it should be everybody, you know, like Reese knows I'm, I'm very passionate. I'm not going to say political as much as I'm about kindness and human rights. And I won't go into that. That's a whole other side of me.

Reese Brown (14:57.218)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (15:15.5)

But you know how my warm up for my acting classes right now is I don't do acting warm ups. Let's do relaxation. Let's do this. Because acting is about truth. It is not about faking anything. That's why it's so fun. It's dangerous. It's about truth. You don't want to fake it. We don't really kill people, but we do pretty much everything else. And this has to be true. And it can't be from here. It has to be like guts, you know, where you feel what's right and what's wrong. That's where acting comes from.

Reese Brown (15:36.834)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (15:45.655)

My acting warm up is, well first I always say like, so how you doing today? And then if you say like, well I'm fine. I'm like, hmm, what's going on? Because you're not. And then you start talking and then I'll say, my gosh, did you guys go protest this weekend? Because you know, this is about you guys. I don't care what you're protesting about, but you need to stand up. Did you vote? Don't bother coming to my class if you didn't vote.

Hey, let's talk about what's going on in the world around us. You're sitting in my class. You are this certain person and you're in a certain mood and we bring stuff out in you and then around you there's all this other stuff going on and you just got stuck at, you know, Walmart in a line that was too long with a bunch of dumb people that drove you crazy that you figured out, you know, but they had a cute kid so I liked him anyway. This is what humans do. We aren't black and white.

We're not perfect. You don't want to be perfect. I might have a big egotistical day and Reese, pray you go like, Catherine, you're being kind of a, excuse me, asshole today. And I go like, wow, Reese told me that I must be, thank you. Wow, I needed that then. Because we're humans and humanity doesn't mean that you're perfect.

It means that you keep trying to be a better human. And if you did something lousy, you don't spend the rest of your life kicking yourself. go like, hmm, that was not good. I did not like that feeling. I have this moment. What am I doing right now? That is going to be better because I learned that lesson. Life is a bunch of lessons, a bunch of, I think, spiritual lessons. I don't mean like religious. I mean like big, like am I?

Reese Brown (17:14.413)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (17:32.056)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (17:37.87)

being patient, am I being kind? It's that kind of stuff. That's the stuff that actually moves you forward.

Reese Brown (17:40.215)

Right.

Reese Brown (17:47.04)

Yeah, and I think that the heart of that is truth, right, is a word that you kept using again and again. And that is what I think exactly what you said, like acting. It's so funny that it's called acting when it is the most truthful thing I've ever done. Right. And your class was the space that allowed me. I mean, you were with you're the reason I ever experienced anger at all.

Cathryn Hartt (18:13.882)

remember that day was one of the greatest days of my life. And by the way, if you look up to act in the dictionary, it says to do something, not to fake. It says do something. I, this is why we call it what I do, even though it's loving. Sometimes you call it torture because you were working on a piece and you really needed to be angry. Now I'd worked with Reese for a very long time. Reese is one of the most natural and

Reese Brown (18:25.997)

do something.

Reese Brown (18:33.582)

you

Cathryn Hartt (18:43.482)

ever-growing actresses I ever worked with. You really did. just like, you know, some people it's just in your soul. Now, I don't look for talent. I look for people who like to evolve because talent is like, eh, throw it in the trash can. But if you have something inside of you that is this like bigger, like a spiritual kind of thing, that's who you are. It's a purpose in life that you love to grow, to evolve, to learn. That.

Reese Brown (19:02.818)

Mm-hmm.

Cathryn Hartt (19:11.958)

I can do anything with and so can you as long as I can get you to get rid of the blocks that are stopping you from doing it. Well, I'd worked with you for a very long time and we were doing this piece and I needed you to get really angry and you couldn't and I had not found a place that I couldn't easily get Reese cakes to go to and really get angry. I think I tortured you for a few days and I kept

Reese Brown (19:40.502)

I think it was a little bit of time, yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (19:42.171)

I punched your buttons, I pushed you, I got in your face, I was cruel to you, I was horrible to you. Not as a really I want to hurt you, but as what we do as actors. I'm trying to push your buttons and cause some kind of a real reaction. And I'm like, I'm like sweating over there like what the and all of a sudden, you burst out crying. And you cried forever.

Cathryn Hartt (20:14.982)

And all those years that you had not been able to cry because you didn't think that you had the right to basically is what I got from it. That you cried and that it was okay to be angry. It didn't mean you hated someone if you got angry at someone. It just meant you loved someone and you were mad at them right now. But you still loved them.

Reese Brown (20:22.734)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (20:37.782)

Right? Yeah. The heart of anger is that love, right? And I think that I want to clarify, not clarify, but maybe underline one of the things that you said is that like, it's having the safe space to do that, that made it possible, right? It's like, I don't think that that kind of breakthrough would have ever happened with anyone else because of the trust that I had in you and in...

Cathryn Hartt (20:43.994)

N-

Cathryn Hartt (20:53.348)

Mm-hmm.

Reese Brown (21:07.566)

our relationship that it was, Ms. Hartt has taken me to all these places and shown me that I will always be okay. I can cry and be super sad and I'll be okay afterwards. can, right after my grandma passed away, the very after the funeral, I was like, and I wanna go to acting class, let's make sure I have acting class afterwards. Cause that's where you can, it's safe to come.

past the brink, right? It's like, you're there, and then you will be okay. And so it was the first, I think, really big feeling that I had never felt. And I think you're spot on that it was because I had never felt like I could take up enough space to be angry, right? And that it's bad to take up that kind of space. And even though you call it torturing, what it really is, it is love. It's pushing me to the

Cathryn Hartt (22:03.15)

Uh-huh.

Reese Brown (22:05.23)

point of it's you saying no you deserve to take up this space time and time and time again until it forces me to take up the space to be angry.

Cathryn Hartt (22:15.214)

Well, know, and clarifying that too, and I was going to say, you don't just do this with anybody, and I actually do a lot of life coaching too, because as an actor, it's so, you have to let go of a lot of stuff and be able to go places that are scary for a lot of people, emotions you don't want to go back to. And so there's a lot of life coaching that you do as an acting coach to help people break through where they're stuck, where you didn't know you were stuck. I didn't know that I was stuck there, and but,

Reese Brown (22:20.493)

Right.

Cathryn Hartt (22:44.844)

Sometimes I will let you go for months and I will just let you not do anything. I had a little child one time and I just, told her mother, she's not doing anything in my acting class. I just let her sit there and watch because it doesn't feel right. And then one time I brought her into one of the bigger kid classes and she saw what everyone really did there and she went, And I said, we're gonna play hide and go seek. But you don't have to play. And we ran down the halls and

I made all this fun noise like we were having the best time in the world. And then she came and peeked around the corner. And I'm like, you want to play? No. said, it's OK. And then I put her back in her younger class. And that very first class, got up and showed him everything she learned in the older class. And she just had the power to just do it. I would never try to make that child. I wouldn't drag that child. I wouldn't scare that child. You have to.

you know, acting and directing and all this stuff that we do is not really about forcing someone. If you force someone, they shut down. You never want to try and force someone to do something in anything in your life. They just won't listen to you. They'll just hurt you or get mad at you or go away and never come back. But what you do is you find the right button to push that is right. And so sometimes it's just gentle loving. I'll show you how to do it. Well, let me I'll do it first. I'll show you what it looks like.

Reese Brown (24:01.526)

Right, right.

Cathryn Hartt (24:12.762)

Looks like I'm an idiot and I don't care. So you can be an idiot too. Don't be a really big idiot or I'll distract you. And I'll be like, okay, everybody, we're just running around the room. Okay. Now then I, and I said, by the way, I was filming that. Look how great you look. What? Yeah. That's what you look like when you aren't stuck in your head, trying to make sure you look okay, which is what most people do. And so you have to be free enough. So there's a lot of life coaching that goes into it, but you have to understand where

Reese Brown (24:17.315)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (24:32.323)

Right.

Cathryn Hartt (24:43.418)

Myself as an acting coach, have, I work very intuitive intuitively a lot and I use my sensitive stuff, you know, to be able to feel where you are and what it feels like inside of you for me to decide if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna love you or go like, it's okay, let's start with you today. Or if I'm gonna get in your face and say, I will friggin be scarier than anything is scaring you right now. You better do it right now. I swear.

And you go like, okay, and you do it. And then you go like, I go like, what does that feel like? And every time practically it's like freedom. feels like freedom because sometimes you need to like, you know, I guess you call it tough love. Sometimes you need to scare someone so that they get out of the fire before it burns them up. You know, sometimes someone's drowning. You need to knock them out so you can keep them from drowning. Sometimes.

Reese Brown (25:22.744)

freedom.

Reese Brown (25:34.808)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (25:41.371)

I wouldn't really knock you out, but I do tend to cut your hands off every once in while if you're doing hand acting, but other than that, I never really do it. But it's that, it's having that sensitivity. And that is one of the things that you have always had that I understood as an acting coach, as a life coach, and as a human being, that you have a sensitivity to other people, to feel the world around you.

Reese Brown (25:47.864)

hand acting.

Cathryn Hartt (26:11.278)

and to be great, but never feel like you're being great. To be powerful, but to not feel like I'm powerful. You know, and so those do go hand in hand. What makes you really powerful is not when you tell everyone how powerful you are and how smart you are. I'm not naming names and how you're the best at everything and you know better than everybody else.

I just sit there and go like, wow, how small is your little, I mean, because really you are the most insecure person I've ever seen in my life. No one who has power ever has to tell me you have power. No one who is going to blacklist you, and I had a teenager one time, some acting coach, because he wasn't going to take her expensive course because he couldn't afford it. And he'd been taking it for a while and he started working with me he goes like, I'm so scared, Ms. Hartt

So and so said, she's going to blackmail me because I'm not taking it. And I said, what's funny about that? And I said, you're going to laugh too. And he says, no, it's terrible. I'm terrified. I no. I said, first of all, honey, in Dallas, Texas, no one has the power to blackball you. Trust me. Trust me. I know these things, OK?

And if someone actually did, and there are some people in Hollywood that could blackball your career, but they'll never tell you. People have the power to do that. They don't tell you. You just can't wonder. You're wondering like, why am I never working again? So I said, see how ridiculous this is. And by the way, what's really going to happen is you're a really hot 17 year old boy.

You look really cute, you wear tight pants, you look fabulous, you're a fabulous actor. You have got so much charisma. Don't you think if I'm a casting director and you walk in and I'm a director and go like, I want you for my movie. No, I'm gonna say like, oh my gosh, this kid is so hot, he's gonna be a star. But that acting teacher said to blackball him, so I'm not gonna make $50 million off of him on my movie. So he started laughing too. I'm like, you just had to get it in perspective.

Cathryn Hartt (28:28.154)

Don't let the world tell you what you're supposed to think and feel. They don't know.

Reese Brown (28:33.888)

Right. Right.

Yeah, I want to tie back in what you were saying about this, the spirituality and how the power that you're talking about that is kind of like this internal locus of control of knowing that power without having to lord it over anyone else, right? That that's really where that, I think, truth stems from. Some of my favorite memories in your class, in the hardest days, are the ones that

go there, right? And there is a, well, I have to share, I do have a tattoo of one of the things you said to me the first day you met me. And I don't know why I haven't shared this with you, but it says, when you look at the world, you see poetry. It's something you said to me on the very first day you met me. And I have it tattooed right here as my reminder to see poetry in.

in everything and to be the person that Ms. Hartt sees me as, But in this way, one of the lessons that you teach is about your personal power. And it's so juicy. It's such a good, juicy lesson because it asks people to like really dig in. And it's hard when you're there because it's so vulnerable.

Cathryn Hartt (29:53.722)

let's get it.

Reese Brown (30:05.698)

But there is something deeply spiritual about it too. And I remember, you know, being younger and kind of being raised in Texas and it's like, well, yeah, I gone to church, but I'm spiritual. And then experiencing this class and it's like, this is what spirituality is. This is what connection to the divine feels like, I think, is when I remember my power. It's like, that's the spark of,

Cathryn Hartt (30:09.401)

Mm-hmm.

Cathryn Hartt (30:27.23)

my gosh.

Cathryn Hartt (30:33.434)

Mm-hmm.

Reese Brown (30:34.638)

you know, God in the broadest sense of the word is. What is, why is that important for you in teaching as a teacher and educator, someone who cares about, like you said, the most important lesson isn't getting the Academy Award. It's 20 years from now, I want to still see your soul in your eyes. What is it about that lesson that's so fundamental to your work and this

Cathryn Hartt (30:58.074)

Mm-hmm.

Reese Brown (31:04.75)

the spiritual connection that you have with all of your students, whether they're religious or consider themselves spiritual or not. You could also call it human, right?

Cathryn Hartt (31:15.738)

Well, you know, it's that little thing that, you know, we say a lot, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual, you know, and I bet a lot of your viewers are in that sort of category. And so to me, what I call spiritual for myself, and I can only say what it is for myself, not for you, it is my commitment to know that it's my responsibility

Reese Brown (31:28.397)

Yeah.

Cathryn Hartt (31:45.092)

to.

do what I do and to have the effect that I have. And even if I accidentally have an adverse effect, some stuff it's like, well, I'm sorry you took it that way. I didn't mean it that way. I meant this. Are you okay? Do you understand that now? But you know, it's really that you, you know better. It's the thing that, that this is why I tie it into my acting because those guts,

And as I always say, this, don't be thinking when you're trying to act, or when you're trying to play basketball, or you're trying to do whatever. If you're gonna be great, you better take all the time to do the due diligence and learn the technique and work it over and over over over over over over so that when you go play basketball, you just go have fun playing basketball, but you play basketball way better than you used to play basketball while you're having fun playing basketball. That's what.

learning acting is about. It's not to make it look like you know how to act because that means you're doing bad acting. I need to get lost in it and forget that you're acting and feel like you're really that person and I get lost in it with you. And in order to go there, to me, acting has always felt very spiritual. I kind of, when I meditate or I pray or I empath anything,

I kind of feel like, you know, it's almost like when you, if you're disassociated, you know, if you're disassociated, you kind of lift out of your body and it's like, I can talk and answer, but I'm not, you're not having an effect on me because I'm scared or I don't like it or I'm bored. And, you know, we all do that at some point in some people a lot. And, but that is like, I go up here to, and I go into this room where I shut the door. To me, what I do is I go up here,

Cathryn Hartt (33:44.101)

So I can, not so I can get away, so I can see everything better. And I go onto the balcony and I'm like, whoa, now I have a better idea of what's really going on. And so that's where I go when I coach, when I act, when I create, when I write, when I do anything. It's a place where you go that's very similar to where you go when you're trying to hear God in your heart or you want to

meditate or you want to just have a peaceful moment to try to get your head together out in nature and just, you know, be yourself. Because, you know, my feeling about a lot of stuff is you really don't need labels. So if you are a very proud Christian and you are really doing that, I am so happy for you. And sometimes my

my real strong Christian friends would go, but you have to come to church with me. And I go like, okay, I haven't been to church for a long time since brother, Reverend Mingo, when I was young, I yelled at my mother because she put some woman who was dying in the hospital's name in the plate for you to go visit, but she wasn't a member of our church. So you said, what? Well, that kind of turned me off from going into your church anymore. But I do go to church sometimes. visit, I go to synagogue. My last husband was Jewish.

And our conversation about religion was we both like to eat good food. Okay, let's get married. so, but I really respect anyone who has community and tries to have community and does due diligence to try to do anything in the world to be better. So yes, I'll go to your church and you have me. This happened to be in one of those really big mega churches and

lot of nice people. Boy, they had a lot of stuff going on. It was wonderful. And at the very end he said, and if you don't get baptized by me, you're going to hell. And I went, that's where you lose me. That's where you lose me, dude. Because I don't think that's true. I think as some little kid that never heard of Jesus before is doing everything God told him to do in his heart, he's not going to hell. And you cannot convince me of that. So, but that's my own personal feeling.

Cathryn Hartt (36:06.306)

So I just always feel like there's many ways up the mountain. I've studied a lot of different religions. It appears to me that almost all of them has the golden rule. And if you can just do that, you are doing pretty good. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That is a pretty good way to go through life. So that's just my basics. It's like you have to pay attention to your guts. You don't get to just go here.

You don't get to just go here. Well, it feels like what they told me. I read this stuff that I would be OK if I did this. This is telling you, that's not right. But everyone else is doing it. So it must be. No, I'm sorry. You have responsibility to you. To the way you feel going back to the death bed. On your deathbed.

Are you going to remember how many people you were mean to? Are you going to remember how many people that you turned away from when they needed you? Are you going to remember that? It's the things we didn't do that usually haunt us, not the stuff you did. And so that's stuff, but you have to find it for yourself. I can't tell you what it is. Reese can't tell you what it is. It's just any way you can get there. And I literally have gone to the sides of mountains.

Literally, because I told I was telling Greece before I I was having an argument with my last husband one day and I was so mad at him. I said I hate you and I did. And I had never felt hate in my life and I had I it felt so horrible. It felt like acid inside of my body and I literally went out in the backyard. We had all these big palm trees and I went out there and I knelt under a palm tree. I fell on my

knees and I said, God, I will do anything. I can never feel this feeling. I have to find out how I got here. And I spent maybe three years going to the sides of mountains and doing a whole spiritual journey about me, not him. He didn't make me hate him. That's his problem. I can't make him not do what he wanted to do. I have no control over that, but I have control over

Cathryn Hartt (38:33.274)

what I did and what I felt like. And that is something I can do something about. And so that's kind of my philosophy. It's like, I might get mad at you or I mean, like what you're doing to me or blah, blah, blah. But when I really look at it, I have to go like, and sometimes I will just stop. This is a thing I do. I learned to do with my last husband because he did make me mad a lot. And he was had good points too. But you know, I did divorce him. Anywho.

But I also gave the eulogy at his funeral when he died. And I started the eulogy by saying, if you are here at this service today, you loved him and you hated him. And that's life, baby. Okay. And so I, I just feel like you have to.

Cathryn Hartt (39:25.85)

You have to decide to be accountable to your feelings. So I was yelling at him one day and one thing I do, and these are a couple of just little tricks. I know this isn't what you're talking about, but if you're feeling like someone's attacking you, so you feel ah, or like I want to, one thing I do is I'll picture a little plastic bubble around me and all of your attack just bounces off and turns into fairy dust or love. It doesn't go back you, it turns into fairy dust.

or my favorite one, I developed this one when I was living with that husband who was really, he was just one of those guys. He was an anger guy and he was like very, he's bipolar and I would picture him like he was on TV and I would just watch him and I would look at him and therefore I'm not attached to whatever emotional thing he's doing to me.

Reese Brown (40:08.173)

Mm.

Cathryn Hartt (40:24.002)

and I can see what's really going on. And like one time I came home from one of my journeys that I went to the mountains with and I came back and you know it's way easy to be spiritual on the side of a mountain. But standing in line at the grocery store, hmm. So I had just gotten off of my flight and I was all in spiritual enlightenment.

Reese Brown (40:24.706)

Mm-hmm.

Cathryn Hartt (40:51.214)

And my husband, who is the guy who made me the angriest of anyone in the entire world, but he always came and picked me up at the airport and I came home and he had fixed me two meals. One was my favorite meal that he always made for me and the other one was a new meal. So he made the backup, the one that I really loved in case I didn't like the new meal. And I'm like, that is so sweet. And I'm opening up and I'm going like, where's the two pounds of butters that we had in the freezer? And he goes, I used it.

Okay, I'm still going to eat it. right. All right. Okay, so I'm tasting it and he's sitting there like, so is it good? And I said, yes, it's wonderful. It's really good. Thank you. It's so good. That was so sweet of you. Don't you want to have some? He's like,

But what does it taste like? mean, what it tastes like, I know, I can taste the butter for sure. And it tastes all this stuff. It's really good. mean, the texture. But what did do? Do you like it? Yes, I do like it. Would you taste? This goes on for about 25 minutes. Do you like it? Do you like it? Do you like it? Do you like it? Do you like it? And I'm like, okay, this is one of your setups where you do something really nice. And then it's like this torture thing where it's like, look,

I brought you ice cream." And I'm going like, I really didn't want ice cream, but he said he's going go get ice cream. So he says, what kind do want? I said chocolate. So he brings me cherry vanilla. And he's like, they're out of chocolate. No, because I was looking, I wanted chocolate ice cream. And I was OK, because he made me, he's going like, He goes, no, cherry vanilla is just so much better.

So he was one of those guys where it's like he does something and then you're like really mad at him because he did it and you're supposed to be saying thank you, you punched him instead. So he's asking this question over and over because I had just come from the side of a mountain.

Cathryn Hartt (42:47.578)

I, now I do this all the time. I listen to his question. So it's kind of like I put him on TV screen, so I'm not being activated by him. And I'm watching him and he is asking me the same question. What does it taste like? And I have told him a hundred times, all the different flavors. I told I said, I must not be answering his question.

Because you get real logical when you just put them on TV and you go like, what is really actually going on here? I'm just really observing deeply. So I said, let me really taste it. Because I obviously am not giving him the answer that he wants or he would be happy with it. So I tasted it with my soul.

And when I taste it, by that I mean like every part of me, not just like, it tastes like food. I went deeper, like it tastes like, like an acting exercise that would give you like, what does the air smell like? Love. It's perfectly acceptable. It doesn't have to smell like perfume. So I'm tasting this.

And now, like an acting exercise, I must give you the truth. And I said, to tell you the truth, Craig, it doesn't taste like anything. It has no taste. But this is also how you do acting, too. I followed it.

Reese Brown (44:18.84)

Mm-hmm.

Cathryn Hartt (44:20.148)

Or with my senses, with all my senses, where is that really going? I'm not making it somewhere I'm following it. And when I followed it to what it really tasted like...

I had my answer and I said, it doesn't taste like food at all. It tastes like love.

And that was the one true hug I ever received in that entire marriage. And he broke down crying. Because I had not been able to see the way he showed me love. Because sometimes he showed me love by yelling at me. Why are you yelling at me and treating me like I'm a child? And then I would look at him on TV. Are you scared of me? Yes, well, it feels like you hate me. Could you tell me why? He says, I'm afraid you're going to chop your finger off.

And don't want you to do and I said, if you yell at me, it makes me feel like you hate me. Could you just say honey? And I would say I'm 40 years old at this time and I have chopped all the onions. I've never topped my finger off. You've got to trust me on this one. People do not love you the way you want them to a lot. It is your responsibility to never give up trying to see it though.

That's it.

Cathryn Hartt (45:46.094)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (45:47.604)

Yeah, and I do think that that is...

the lesson that you leave, at least left me with, I don't want to presume any of your other students' experiences, but that when we act, we must step into love for the character, right? Deep, deep love for who we're trying to portray, love for ourselves and our truth, but then love for humanity and

Cathryn Hartt (46:13.87)

Mm-hmm.

Reese Brown (46:23.006)

the truth of the human story, right? And that is, that's it.

Cathryn Hartt (46:29.922)

It's a generosity of spirit.

that you, you know, like if you're doing an acting scene, I want to make the other person look good. I'm listening to you. I'm not listening to myself talk, because then I am going to be acting and saying my lines in a clever way. But if I'm actually watching you, something, it will look like I'm doing nothing, but a thousand little nuances will happen. Humanness.

And so it is, I I guess it is really all about that generosity of spirit. And, you know, in this day and age, it is so hard to keep that up sometimes because you feel like every man for yourself sometimes. You're like, I've got to protect myself. I can't trust these other people. But if you lose trust for everybody and everything, and you can only trust you,

or you're a little bubble, then your world is awfully small and you're not going to have that much fun. You'll take all the danger out.

But even at your young age, you've already found that the danger is the stuff that gives you the thrill. If you don't want to ride the roller coaster, it's OK. But if you just walk everywhere and you never try to fly or swim or.

Reese Brown (47:51.843)

Yeah.

Reese Brown (47:57.966)

Yeah, there's so many little Miss Hartt isms that I use all the time. And one of them that pertains to this is courage isn't feeling no fear. It's looking fear in the face and opening your arms and saying, it on. And that is what I think loving feels like, right? It is looking fear in the face, the potential to be hurt.

Cathryn Hartt (48:15.235)

Mm-hmm.

Reese Brown (48:26.046)

the deepest that you possibly could be but still saying bring it on.

Cathryn Hartt (48:30.56)

If you have pain, most people will want to go away with it. And some go from it. Now, sometimes you need to, like if a child has had a very big trauma, it's important you don't try to make them address it right then. So there's, you know, and I'm not a psychologist either. I'm just a friggin' acting coach who also does life coaching and, you know, and goes to the sides of mountains sometimes. But...

If you are having pain for myself, this is only for myself, I have found that if I am afraid of that pain, and this goes with what you're saying, if I have pain, if there's something that hurts me, not just something I'm scared to do, but something that I don't want to address, I want to shove it down. If you shove it down, what's going to happen is going to be like cement.

And 40 years from now, you're gonna go to therapist and it's gonna take him forever to try and figure out why you became such a hostile, mean old person. You wanna address your pain as you feel it, because then it's a lot less than when you are doing it like 30 years later. So you're gonna, you wanna hold your pain to your heart and just say, bring it on, I'm not afraid of you. You'll be so surprised at how much your pain is instantly gone just because you said,

I'll deal with it. What are you gonna do to me? Well, they've got nothing, your pain has nothing to do for you. And I have a little saying, this is actually a really important story to me. I probably have told you this story, Reese, but I have a saying that I say to my students a lot, that the depth of your pain measures the depth of your compassion.

Where I got that?

Reese Brown (50:17.294)

another one that my listeners will have heard before.

Cathryn Hartt (50:21.094)

they've heard the one about my angels. So I want to tell you where I got that saying. So I woke up to the fact when I was in my about 40 that I had been raped as a small child, not by my family or anyone I knew. And I didn't know that because, you know, children, you just block it out.

Reese Brown (50:23.562)

Not the story, just the saying, just the saying.

Cathryn Hartt (50:49.626)

and I had no memory. I was just helping someone else go through some pain where they had been sexually abused and I was going to their 12-step program with them and I'm going like, I'm listening to every single one of you. I have every single one of those symptoms. You would think this had happened to me. And they're all going like, mm-hmm. I'm like, but you wouldn't remember that. That's something you would remember. And one night that person I was with grabbed my hand and held me.

Reese Brown (51:07.534)

You

Cathryn Hartt (51:19.488)

and I started having flashbacks and they came in big chunks of little pieces. I didn't even know what it was for a long time, the fear and then you get away and I couldn't talk. so I went, I did therapy, I did all this stuff. Okay, I thought that this was gone because I dealt with it. And I was going to a network chiropractor in Florida one time. I don't know if you've ever done network chiropractor, but

It's very interesting. They kind of touch different parts of your spine and stuff, and then you release the pain or the joy or whatever was stuck there. It's kind of very interesting. So this poor guy is doing this on me. Now I have dealt with my that stuff. I am done. He hits a space on my back. He's standing in front of me and I'm lying flat on my face and he hits my back and I grab him and I'm really strong and I could have killed him.

And he grabbed my arms and I'm like, you know, just like all this stuff that was not anything I recognize. just was like, and he, so he tied my hands behind my back with a towel. And he said, do want me to go on? And I said, I am so sorry. And all of, and all my senses went away. And I went, that's that thing. Cause I know that's part of the process that happened when I was remembering all that stuff. I said,

If you are willing to, and you can tie my arms behind my back before we start, I will come back every single day and have you hit that spot until I reckon with what that is." And he said, okay, and I said, can you do it one more time today? My hands are already tied. Okay. And he said, okay, and he hit it. And because I had said, I'm willing to face this.

I want it all. don't want to be protected. I don't want it to feel okay and I don't want to feel better. I want to feel it. Whatever it is. That's when I saw everything and it was kind of like an astral projection thing and these two angels came and they lived. Okay, this is I know it sounds weird, but this is the way my mind works and Reese's used to me. Okay.

Cathryn Hartt (53:36.795)

I have my pragmatic side and I have my you just have to go with me because you know it is what I'm feeling these two angels came and they it was like they were astral projecting me and I went back to this thing it happened to me when I was in daycare at when I was about five at this little school and they took me over and I'd never seen the whole thing I didn't know and when I then I started realizing this is when I first started seeing angels they came to save me from my pain

And the angels had me watch. I had no feeling at all. Again, it's sort of like I was watching on TV. And it was like, I was just watching it. I saw every single thing this group of boys did to me. And with no feelings, I just got to see it all. And then what happened was they took me and they threw me in the little swimming pool they had there to wash me off. And I...

felt like I was free. So I had disassociated at the very beginning. I felt nothing. I was like, I want my mommy and then I was gone. I was just disassociated. I felt nothing. But when I got in the pool, I was starting to die and I was so happy. I saw the light. I saw the angels. I was getting away from this. I was so happy that my angels had come to save me. But they didn't come to save me.

They came to take me back to my body. And they explained to me that you have been put on this earth to learn great compassion. This is one of your first lessons. And this was given to you because it's like when you're given a pain like that, it is meant to dig a hole out, more space out to fill up with more compassion. And otherwise it will harden to cement.

but it's really meant to dig a hole out to open it so that you may then fill it with compassion. Because the depth of your pain measures the depth of your compassion. And that's where I got that quote that I give to you guys. And at that point, I honestly, I forgave those guys. I mean, I didn't try to, it's just like, they had no power over me. I just watched it and I'm like, okay.

Cathryn Hartt (56:01.115)

And that's when I finally let go of all that pain. But you know, everyone has your own, your own stuff. You don't have to see angels. You don't have to go to sides of mountains. You can just, you know, sit alone in your bedroom and, and, or better than that, go out into nature because nature is extraordinarily healing and, know, and find you, find you all the way to you.

You know? Anyway.

Reese Brown (56:32.342)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it's, it's, our greatest gift is ourselves and being able to share it with people. And I truly cannot thank you enough for sharing yourself with me here today and your time, but just throughout all of our time together, it is.

Reese Brown (56:56.43)

I'm like sitting here assembling over my words because I can't put into words the impact that you have had on my life and my ability to hold and see compassion. So for anyone curious about working with Miss Heart or seeing any of the beautiful, wonderful things that she has done, all of the links and everything will be in the descriptions where everyone is watching.

Ms. Harta is not just an acting coach, she is, yes, a life coach, but just a wonderful person that you should know. So that all will be down below. Yes.

Cathryn Hartt (57:35.524)

I appreciate it.

Thank you so much. And Reese, you are why I do this. This moment, hearing you say that, if I only did that with one person, that is why I do this. Thank you. And I love you so, so much. I'm so proud of

Reese Brown (57:55.692)

I love you. Thank you. To put a little button on our conversation, what is one word to describe how you're feeling right now?

Cathryn Hartt (58:07.418)

Well, I think we can say tears is a pretty good word right now.

Reese Brown (58:10.67)

We're actors, what else are we supposed to do?

Cathryn Hartt (58:15.674)

It is but acting is true. I would just say, you know, it's love. It's, you know, that old cliche thing, but it's really encompasses so much stuff. And that's truly what we're both feeling for each other for different ways. You're at that end and I'm at this end and someone was at that end for me, my great mentors that loved me so much.

that changed my life and I would never have done when I do. And I always said if I could do that for one person.

If I could just do that to pay them back for what they did for me. So you're paying it forward, baby. And that's what you're doing right now. Okay.

Reese Brown (59:04.366)

trying to because you can't quantify that gift that you gave me. So thank you everyone listeners. Thank you for being here today. And yes, thank you so much Miss Hart.

Cathryn Hartt (59:18.085)

Thanks and go love each other.

Reese Brown (59:20.386)

Yes, always.